what's more powerful, 12.7mm Browning or 12.7mm Berezin UBK

[1K3]

?

[Treize69]

2 questions-

1) Whats a Berezin UBK? Russian 12.7 Im assuming?

2) Do you mean the bullet or the gun that fires it?

[JAWS2003]

Berezin

[Tony Williams]

There's nothing to choose between the muzzle energy generated by the two cartridges, although the Soviet 12.7mm was available with more effective bullets (the US copied the design principle of their API to make the .50 M8).

The UB was lighter than the Browning, and faster-firing, so it seems to have been more efficient. It also lost a smaller proportion of its rate of fire when synchronised.

What I don't know is how they compared for reliability. The Browning was a reliable gun, but I have no data on the UB.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Tony Williams
What I don't know is how they compared for reliability. The Browning was a reliable gun, but I have no data on the UB.

In college I had a "lab work" on automatic weapons, in MSTU M6 they had a whole museum of all kinds of automatic weapons. A technician working there was maybe 70 years old, he worked there since War, and he sowed us a lend-lease airplane-mounted Browning machinegun, saying that it was less reliable then even early 12.7 ShVAK... IIRC Browning they had there was drum-fed, it surprised me. It happened in 1992 I think... I don't pretend to tell the "truth", I only repeat the words of that man.

Were there any drum-fed 12.7 Brownings on lend-leased planes? From what I understood the gun he showed was probably wing-mounted.

[Treize69]

American cannon were drum fed (as were everyones), but I've never heard of an M2 being drum fed, always belt-fed.

[Saxman]

Odd. Most of the Ma Deuces I've heard about or seen were belt fed.

[HoHun]

Hi 1K3,

>what's more powerful, 12.7mm Browning or 12.7mm Berezin UBK

Comparing energy of the rounds (kinetic + chemical = total):

12,7x99 API: 17,0 kJ + 4,8 kJ = 21,8 kJ
12,7x108 API: 16,9 kJ + 11,3 kJ = 28,2 kJ

So the Berezin round has about a 30% advantage that is entirely due to a higher chemical content.

Since both guns have the same rate of fire, this advantage carries over to firepower:

12,7mm UB: 0,37 MW
,50 Browning M2: 0,28 MW

Unfortunately, I don't have the weight of a Beresin 12.7 mm cartridge (complete with belting), so I can't properly compare total battery weight.

This is a guess based on the assumption that the Beresin round weighs 110 g complete just as the Browning round:

6x 12,7mm UB - 259 rpg - 321 kg - 97% firepower - firepower per weight: 137%
8x ,50 Browning M2 - 250 rpg - 452 kg - 100% firepower - firepower per weight: 100%

Summed up in a sentence, six Beresins give about the same firepower as eight Brownings, but with an equivalent amount of ammunition weigh 300 lbs then the Browning installation.

Regards,

Henning (HoHun)

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Treize69
American cannon were drum fed (as were everyones), but I've never heard of an M2 being drum fed, always belt-fed.

This is incorrect for most 20mm aircraft cannon.  The MG151/20, almost all Hispano Mk II (M2 20mm cannon in US service), Hispano Mk V, ShVak, B-20, Type 99 Model 2 and Ho-5 are all belt fed cannons.

The Hispano Mk I, MG/FF and Type 99 Model 1 were drum fed cannons.  If you look at which saw the heaviest usage it is clear that belt fed cannons were far more common.

[Treize69]

I just went over my sources, you're right (as usual) karnak. I was looking at the assembly of the magazine, not the feed mechanism on the 151/20.

Its a belt of ammo coiled in a drum.

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by Boroda
Were there any drum-fed 12.7 Brownings on lend-leased planes? From what I understood the gun he showed was probably wing-mounted.

I've never heard of any drum-fed Brownings of any calibre: they were all belt-fed.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum