Author Topic: 109K-4 had gear doors? (Read 845 times)

Krusty · « **on:** December 07, 2005, 12:49:52 PM »

I'm curious why the K-4 we have is without gear doors. They had them hinged on the outside and swinging out. When the gear was retracted the door covered up the tire portion that is visible in all other 109 variants. Kind of like the 190A9 has, but the 190A8 doesn't.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 07, 2005, 02:18:46 PM »

Sounds like they removed the gear doors in the field often. Only came across one image so far of a 109K with them still on. Many more images without the gear doors.

Krusty · « **Reply #2 on:** December 07, 2005, 02:59:45 PM »

Hrm... I ran across an image online earlier today that showed a K4 with gear doors... I guess it was one of the flukes or something. Okay then.

Crumpp · « **Reply #3 on:** December 07, 2005, 06:35:49 PM »

Quote

Kind of like the 190A9 has, but the 190A8 doesn't.

All FW-190A's have gear doors. It takes less than 30 seconds to remove or replace them.

Only time it would be time consuming is if you remove the main gear. Then you have to put the plane on jackstands and adjust the closing stops.

The FW-190A9 has flexible gear doors which can remain mounted when the ETC 501 is in use. Earlier Antons have to have the doors removed if using the rack.

All the best,

Crumpp

Krusty · « **Reply #4 on:** December 07, 2005, 07:35:56 PM »

I meant the A5, which had 'em and the A8 which didn't. I didn't think you could put the doors back on the A8 because it had wheel compartments of a different shape.

Crumpp · « **Reply #5 on:** December 07, 2005, 07:41:52 PM »

Quote

I meant the A5, which had 'em and the A8 which didn't. I didn't think you could put the doors back on the A8 because it had wheel compartments of a different shape.

They are the same on all service Antons.

All the best,

Crumpp

Squire · « **Reply #6 on:** December 07, 2005, 08:20:38 PM »

I also have a source that says the doors were often removed on the K-4s. Could be they weren't worth the bother to replace due to incidental battle damage, I really don't know. The G-10 didnt have them at all.

Bruno · « **Reply #7 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:17:57 PM »

It was pretty 'wet' in the east late '44 '45. I have several films of LW planes scrambling from soggy fields. All the planes in these films had their gear doors removed (mixed bag of planes FW A, F, and Ds as well as Bf G-14s, G-10s and K-4s).

The wheels would sink in the mud and the gear doors would drag and compact with mud making take-off / landing hazardous.

Squire · « **Reply #8 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:28:19 PM »

That makes sense. Lots of nice extras like that just got gummed up in the jungle, as it were.

Crumpp · « **Reply #9 on:** December 07, 2005, 09:29:01 PM »

I have pictures of FW190's with all the gear doors removed, both main and clamshell due to muddy airfields.

All the best,

Crumpp

Bruno · « **Reply #10 on:** December 07, 2005, 10:43:02 PM »

The pics I have show the Jabo FWs with the whole door removed, I assumed due to the weight of the bombs. The pics I have of JG 54 in Kurland have the clamshells but not the wheel covers, even on the worst of their airfields.

Stukas would also have their wheel fairing rmoved for the same reason through out the wet months.

Krusty · « **Reply #11 on:** December 07, 2005, 11:08:58 PM »

Interesting info. FYI I was initially talking about the "clamshell" doors when I posted.

KurfÃ¼rst · « **Reply #12 on:** December 08, 2005, 07:04:29 AM »

I very much doubt the wheel doors were removed by choice. From the photographs I've seen, there's a good case that early production aircraft of the first batch didn't have the wheel doors fitted yet The most published photographs are however on those early ones, usually from JG77 in October/November 1944 in Neuruppin.

Later ones commonly have, from appx. the 332 xxx production block. Pretty avarage production history stuff. BTW, they were already intended for the 109G, it was just somehow not put into production (the wheel well shape was redesigned, though), even if I can find a few 109G-6s with wheel well doors.

A few pics of 109Ks with wheel well doors, nope, you can find quite a few of them :

If you look at the pic of the 109K in the snow, it pretty much screws the 'mud-theory'.

IMHO it should be added, it adds a lot of 'K-ish' feeling to the plane, and it's just eyecandy anyway.

Crumpp · « **Reply #13 on:** December 08, 2005, 07:17:53 AM »

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I assumed due to the weight of the bombs.

It's for mud.

Removing the doors on any aircraft robs performance. Only reason it is done is for safety on the ground.

The clamshell doors are very easy to remove and replace on the FW190. You only need to pull two quick release pins on each door.

Now the gear cover is more much more involved.

Quote

it pretty much screws the 'mud-theory'.

It's not a theory. That is why they did it. Not all unimproved strips required it and as you point out, removing the doors was not desirable.

If the strip had enough mud with the right consistancy to stick in the wheels, then removing the doors was an option.

All the best,

Crumpp

KurfÃ¼rst · « **Reply #14 on:** December 08, 2005, 07:25:32 AM »

Dunno, Crumpp.

I can very hardly (well, not) find any 109Ks with wheel doors previous the 332xxx Werknummer block. Tough part is, the previous prod blocks were produced exactly in the muddy automn period, so it could be mud as well, and not a production issue. Same with the tailwheels. Obviously mud is a problem, and I suspect many fighters, not just the LW ones were often modded to be safe in mud and snow, wheel covers were removed etc.

I don't know, we'd need butch2k if he has any info on it wheter this early absence of wheel well doors was production difficulty, or field modding.