Originally posted by Tah Gut:
That is the most enlightened comment in the thread.
Well said eagler.
I find it very interesting that this became a debate on which end of the spectrum the wackos of history should be categorized. Those of you I tend to lable conservative mainly argued that Hitler was left of center, while the liberals insisted he was a right winger. Both seem to agree that Stalin falls to the left.
I also have always understood the Fascists to be righties and the Communists leftie. This designation comes not from propaganda established by Hitler, but from coverage of the Spanish Civil War if I remember correctly.
Grunherz had a good point when he said the Lefties may be more dangerous because the Righties have lost legitimacy.
My next question is why? I know why the right wing wackos have lost power and legitimacy, their beliefs are hateful to certain segments of our population and obviously bad. Why hasn't this same thing occurred to the Left? Or has it? Can the media really sell us on something that is obviously wrong? Who on the left is as dangerous or crazy as reactionary groups like the KKK, American NAZI party etc.?
Al Sharpton-Certifiable Wacko, but dangerous?
Jesse Jackson - Once stood for something, now stands for the best publicity opportunity, but dangerous?
Jewish Defense League - Might have one there, these guys have been known to be violent.
Any more?
My uncle is a logger in Louisiana, 2nd largest logging company in the state. He can tell you about how dangerous the leftist tree rights groups are. He almost died one day when his chainsaw hit a spike put there by some environ
MENTAL group. The saw kicked back, took off the tip of his nose and burried itself into his left arm all the way to the bone. He was in the hostpital for months, he almost died the day it happened, and then he lost his business because of the long hostpital stay. (this was about 15 yrs ago) Worst thing about the whole thing is that he was cutting trees that my great uncle had planted about 25 to 30 yrs before when his (my uncle's uncle) logging company cut the same field. Oh wait, the property was owned by my family too! The really bad part is that they still find spikes to this day.
Basicly I think that any group that turns to "non-political" or violent means when they don't get "their way" is dangerous. I also think that most of these groups tend to be left leaning. Look back over the past 30 years in America and tell me where most of the violence has come from. I can think of 2 instance of violence by our government against "left wing" groups, kent state university and the '68 democratic convention in Chicago. I can think of 2 instances of violence by our governement against "right wing" groups, Waco and Ruby Ridge.
Now we had all these skin head/ neo-nazi groups back in the 80's but there violence tended to be against individual community leaders and to be honest I don't remember hearing too much about them being violent, just a really loud bark, though I'm sure I'll be corrected on this point
We had so many leftist/marxist groups back from the 60's and 70's that I can't name them all. Black Panthers, SLF(patty hearst's gropu) and such. These groups all used bombs to get their points accross. They killed alot of cops, these news stories I do remember from my childhood. They robbed banks to fund thier groups and basicly were at war with our country. Where are they now? Most of them are either in jail, still on the run or if smart they learned that violence wasn't the answer and they entered the political arena. Some (a former black panther I believe) have even been elected to congress.
I think/hope that most of these groups tend to marginalize or criminalize themselves in the eyes of the public once they turn to violence. But to me the more dangerous fringe groups are on the left. How often do you hear about right wing malitia's having violent protest at WTO events? When was the last time you heard about any kind of right wing militia violence or right wing abortion clinic bombings? Not saying it's not there, but it is at least on the downturn. But at the same time, I would consider Al Queda to be "right wing" terrorists. But their like a gazillion lightyears more right than any right wing group we have here in America.
I've always looked at it like this...
Communism--------America--------Fascism
Left--------middle--------right
I like it here in the middle, though I think we lean too far to the left with our socialistic programs. To me socialism is the worst of all. It's like combining communism and fascism. In theory it looks and sounds good, but it's yet to be implemented correctly anywhere that I've seen. At least here it tends to turn into taking money from the middle class and giving it directly to the poor. (rich dudes can afford good accountants that know all the tricks) I wouldn't have a problem with that either if it went to the people that really need it instead of all the crooks that get it... I once heard a democrat say that giving a tax cut to the rich is taking money from the poor. How does somebody take money from somebody who doens't have any money?
Back to topic
Left=bad right=good
[ 12-26-2001: Message edited by: Udie ]
