Just a good read.....

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by moot
That guy isn't arab, he's israeli.

Originally posted by  Nashwan
Yes, first Arab called "Haim" I've ever heard of. And the first to head the Weizmann institute.

Perhaps the heading:

"View of the Arab world by an Israeli professor" doesn't sound so catchy  

Well both of you better quickly ignore what he has to say than because none of it must be true......in fact better yet, find him and email him and tell him how wrong he is based on YOUR perceptions of the Arab world mostly gaind from the western media.

EDIT:
I beleive this was the orriginal title "A View from the Eye of the Storm"
EDIT2:
The guys doesn't sound like too much of a dumby either
Haim Harari

Biography

Professor Haim Harari, a theoretical physicist, is the chair of the Davidson Institute of Science Education. He was the president of Israel's Weizmann Institute of Science from 1988 to 2001. In his career he has made major contributions to three different fields: particle physics research, science education, and science administration and policy. He lives in Israel.

[moot]

I'd appreciate if you didn't tie me in with anyone else than myself's opinions, GS

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by moot
I'd appreciate if you didn't tie me in with anyone else than myself's opinions, GS

Noted, and I'd appreciate if you didn't abbreviate my handle as GS.  It reminds me of the now PNG GScholtz.

[moot]

I thought so too.

[Nashwan]

Well both of you better quickly ignore what he has to say than because none of it must be true.

I never mentioned if I considered it was true or not, just pointed out it was incorrectly attributed.

As to truth, it's an opinion piece, so there isn't much that's "true" or "false" in it. I suspect that's why it was labeled as an Arab's view, because quite how much insight an Israeli physicist and university academic can offer on the motivations of suicide bombers, I don't know.

.in fact better yet, find him and email him and tell him how wrong he is based on YOUR perceptions of the Arab world mostly gaind from the western media.

Now you're making assumptions about where my perceptions of the Arab world come from, aren't you? Can I assume  that his perceptions of the Arab world mostly come from the Israeli media?

The guys doesn't sound like too much of a dumby either
Haim Harari

Biography

Professor Haim Harari, a theoretical physicist, is the chair of the Davidson Institute of Science Education. He was the president of Israel's Weizmann Institute of Science from 1988 to 2001. In his career he has made major contributions to three different fields: particle physics research, science education, and science administration and policy. He lives in Israel.

I'm sure he's very inteligent, he can't have reached his position, or respectability in the physics field, without being a very intelligent man. That doesn't mean he has much insight into politics and the Arab mindset, though.

If someone here posted an opinion piece from a European physicist saying Bush's policy in the Middle East was all wrong, would it get much support?

[Gunslinger]

So are you judging him on his credentials or what he has to say.  Last time I checked opinion peices to tend to contain some factual information.  Yes I assume.  I assume you will ignore it because you don't agree with what he's saying and you go to the source of the information to find out why.

[deSelys]

Gunslinger, don't be such an hypocrite. Read out loud the last sentence of Nashwan's last post and give it an honest answer.

[Wolfala]

Good read.

[Momus--]

The article starts with a lie regarding the author's status and continues in a similar vein of half truths. One part I find amusing is where he praises Turkey yet fails to reference their butchery of their kurdish and armenian minorities having earlier in the speech criticised other less Israel-friendly states for similar behaviour. He creates a wonderful straw man by listing a load of things that he says Israel is not responsible for, when no-one has really suggested that they are, but it sounds good to certain ears all the same.

He then goes on to talk about the dysfunctional nature of the arab states without even once touching on the effect that over a century of western colonialism might have had on the region, failing for example to mention that both Iran and Iraq had functioning proto-democracies over half a century ago until Anglo-US meddling reduced both to dictatorship in the name of their own special interests.

The sorry truth is that if you want to understand the forces that have shaped the politics of the middle east then you need to read beyond emails forwarded to you "by a friend".

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Momus--
The article starts with a lie regarding the author's status and continues in a similar vein of half truths. One part I find amusing is where he praises Turkey yet fails to reference their butchery of their kurdish and armenian minorities having earlier in the speech criticised other less Israel-friendly states for similar behaviour. He creates a wonderful straw man by listing a load of things that he says Israel is not responsible for, when no-one has really suggested that they are, but it sounds good to certain ears all the same.

He then goes on to talk about the dysfunctional nature of the arab states without even once touching on the effect that over a century of western colonialism might have had on the region, failing for example to mention that both Iran and Iraq had functioning proto-democracies over half a century ago until Anglo-US meddling reduced both to dictatorship in the name of their own special interests.

The sorry truth is that if you want to understand the forces that have shaped the politics of the middle east then you need to read beyond emails forwarded to you "by a friend".

you post starts off with a half truth and then makes general assumptions that in order for one to bring up one subject they have to reference others.  And yes people blame israel for alot of things.  

The post in this forum was titled this way.....not the original speech.  I don't beleive it was the US that was "colonizing" the middle east.    

and Momus, if somone from Europe gave a speech that was of this quality about Bush's ME policy's I'd give it it's due attention........right up to the point that he starts to say "lied about wmds......haliburton......war for oil" and such.

[Momus--]

Guns, if you can't even post coherently why bother?

If you have specific points to make other than whine about "assumptions" then make them. I gave an example of where the author employs a double standard to make his argument. I also suggested how the absence of any discussion of how outside (western) intervention has shaped the middle east indicates a less than honest approach to the subject. If you want to talk specifics then go ahead, otherwise you're little more than background noise.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Momus--
Guns, if you can't even post coherently why bother?

If you have specific points to make other than whine about "assumptions" then make them. I gave an example of where the author employs a double standard to make his argument. I also suggested how the absence of any discussion of how outside (western) intervention has shaped the middle east indicates a less than honest approach to the subject. If you want to talk specifics then go ahead, otherwise you're little more than background noise.

If you can't understand when I say:  The title of the speech in this thread is not the orriginal title of the speech, than I don't know what else we have to talk about.

And I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about "I don't beleive it was the US that was colonizing the middle east."

[Momus--]

The title of the speech in this thread is not the orriginal title of the speech, than I don't know what else we have to talk about.

I agreee that the misidentification of the author is not a major issue, in fact it is rendered largely irrelevant by the paucity of the piece itself.

And I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about "I don't beleive it was the US that was colonizing the middle east.

Well you can disbelieve whatever you want, but I would make the case that the recent history of the middle east is inextricably linked with colonialism on the part of the developed world. I'm not alone in this contention, and for the author to write it off in a single sentence indicates to me that he is looking to pander to the ignorant rather than make a serious comment.

Kuwait. Autocratic Anglo/US client state

Saudi Arabia. Autocratic US client state

Egypt. Autocratic US client state

Iran. Autocratic US client state until 1979.

Iraq. Victim of a succession of power struggles between various external powers almost since its inception.

Pakistan. Regularly alternates between democracy and US backed military dictatorship.

Algeria. Autocratic French client state.

There seems to be a pattern here that you and Haim Harari have so far neglected to mention.

[boxboy28]

Guns,.....he doesnt want to believe that the Euro's might have been the ones do so.................cant except the blame?.... point the finger elsewhere.........