The Complete Aces High 2 Fighter Turn performance (revised 2.06)

[Krusty]

Some of this just isn't born out in the game. Looking at that chart there are some large discrepencies that make me doubt it's capacity for describing the craft in-game.

As an aside: Also, I wonder how it matches up to historical performance charts? Has anybody tried comparing that yet?

[moot]

It all looks about right.  This is without any flaps.
The only real factor I'd like to have added is fuel loads.  I don't know the historical conventions for fuel loads during testing, but I do know that in AH the 25% increments don't fit all the planes.  Some planes were meant to maneuver only under a certain amount of fuel in certain fuel tanks, which probably doesn't coincide with 25% multiples...  Some planes are great turners only once you've drained volumes of fuel meant for endurance, not combat ACM.

Maybe ~20min of flight's worth of fuel, at MIL or WEP would be a good standard.

[Motherland]

The 109G14 and 109G2 have the same turn radius? Thats odd...

[Krusty]

No more odd than some others...

The Yak9U and Yak9T have identical radii in this chart. In-game the 9T turns tighter (without flaps) enough to be felt. I believe this is also true in historic performance charts (I could be wrong, but I think I've seen turn charts on these 2 before).

It would also have me believe the mosquito out-turned the 109k4, the f4u4, and the f6f.


EDITED

[trotter]

Krusty, maybe some of the oddities you perceive come from the fact that this testing was all done with the stall limiter on. Some planes (even assuming equal pilot skill) will ride closer to the stall better than others, with or without flaps deployed. Stall limiter keeps them all above that point, but of course that's not what one sees in game.

Anyway Kweassa great job and thanks moot for the visual graph.

[humble]

how about an A-20:D

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

Same thing i asked to myself krusty, sadly its a  "bomber"


:|

[cobia38]

Originally posted by humble
how about an A-20:D

 just ran 2 runs at 0-500 alt
 first run was 15 seconds at 225 start speed no flaps 25% fuel
 second run was 15.5 seconds  at 250 start speed no flaps 25% fuel  

[humble]

[moot]

Cobia that amounts to about 350m radius, or right on the far end near the 262's radius, 50m wider than the second worst radius (190A8).  You might want to either redo them and watch what the end speed is, and/or post the film, and/or do extra runs with 1 notch of flap and full flaps.

[cobia38]

ok i slowed it down this time avrage speed 172 at 17.4 seconds  no flaps
 i,m no math wiz so i have no clue what the radius is. lol

[MOSQ]

Cobia38,

When I did all my testing I tested the A-20. I'm not sure why DokGonZo didn't include on his comparison site, maybe becuase he only has fighters listed.

As you of all people know, the A-20 turns well for a while. With no flaps and 25% fuel it out turns these planes with no flaps:
These are in order of best to worst turning ability.

F4U-1D 50%
Mosquito Hvy. Ammo 25%
Bf 109-G14 1x30.2x20 25%
F4U-1C 25%
FW-190 A-5  2x 25%
F4U-1D 75%
P47 D-25  6x 267 25%
P47 D-40  6x 267 25%
P47 D-11  8x 425 25%
P38-G Hvy Ammo  25%
P51-B 25%
P-47N 6x 267 25%
P51 D  6x 25%
FW-190 A-5  4x 25%
TA-152-H1 25%
F4U-1D 99%
P47 D-40  8x 425 25%
P-47N 8x 425 25%
P38-J  Hvy Ammo  25%
P38-L Hvy Ammo 25%
P47 D-25  8x 425  25%
FW-190 A-5  2x 99%
FW-190 D-9 25%
FW-190 A-8  4x 20 25%
B-26
FW-190 F8 25%
B-25 H
Me 262

With full flaps 25% fuel it out turns these planes with full flaps:

P47 D-25  6x 267 25%
P38-L Hvy Ammo 25%
P-47N 8x 425 25%
P38-J  Hvy Ammo  25%
P47 D-25  8x 425  25%
P51 D  6x 25%
FW-190 D-9 25%
P51-B 25%
P47 D-40  8x 425 25%
FW-190 F8 25%
FW-190 A-8  4x 20 25%
B-26
Me 262

[moot]

Originally posted by Kweassa
(X*Y)/6.28 = r  

 convert the radius to meters from miles

So:
Speed x time / 6.28 = radius.
172 is in MPH, radius in Kweassa's table is in meters..
172mph = 276,807meters per hour
or
276,807/60 meters per minute
or
276,807/60/60 = 76.8 meters per second, so:
76.8m * 17.4s = 1,338m (circumference)
and back to the original circle circumference equation:
1,338m/6.28 = 213m radius, which would put it right in the middle of the chart, under the 109G2.

You should try it with 1 notch of flap.

p.s. I'm a bit drunk so the math may be completely off..

[Lumpy]

Kweassa posted those numbers more than two years ago. Isn't that before the big drag/air flow FM change? If so then the numbers are worthless now.

[Krusty]

I believe 2.06 (or right around that) is when the airflow was redone, and this says "revised 2.06" so I assume it's revised for the new numbers.

I think the flaw is in the method used to attain them. For one, it doesn't sound like he's equalized the speed (sustained vs instant turn rates), and for another the stall limiter itself does not level the playing field, and may make aircraft turn at a worse rate than they are capable of sustaining. The first point maybe he can clarify, but I don't agree that using the SL is the key, especially since it's giving results inconsistent with history and with how the game feels when you fly it. Not his fault, I just think he's got a flawed process.


I'm not saying I personally could do better, but I am saying I trust these numbers less than MOSQs (slightly less, mind you)