Author Topic: could USSR have been saved? (mature audiences only) (Read 6125 times)

Krusher · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2005, 10:36:08 AM »

This is just my POV so don't take it the wrong way Boroda.

When or if (depending on your pov) they get the proper policy reforms in place, Russia stands a good chance to become an economic super power. They have the natural resources with more than twice the OIL reserves of the US and China combined. They also have slightly less than 1/3 of all the natural gas reserves in the world. Russia has an educated, English speaking work force. They also have a proven record of industrial might.

What might hold them back is the shrinking, aging population, and the climate makes resources tough to get to. Not to mention their political system seems to be regressing and they can't seem to get over the past. Given the problems, I still think it will work out and they are better off in the long run.

Russian · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2005, 10:37:26 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Hornet33
The question I have is why anyone in their right mind would have wanted the USSR to survive. That government killed and imprisioned more people than Hitler and the NAZI's could ever have hoped to. The entire government was based on fear, and corruption. The idea of communism as a viable form of government is absurd. When a government is run by a handfull of people that answer to no one, least of all the people they govern, then you end up with what the USSR became. A populace that is unable to speak out against their own government for fear of being imprisoned or killed by that government.

The USSR was doomed to fail from the start. Glad it happened, and I would willingly lay down my life to prevent it from happening again.

How many years of propaganda fed news did you have in order to spit something like that? ‘willingly lay my life’ ….un-freaking-believable… ..

Hornet33 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:18:03 AM »

Hmmm Name of Russian, living in California....yeah I can see why you don't get it. You probably belive in outlawing all firearms, the press is evil, and freedom of speech is ok only as long as it agrees with your political view.

Well I'm an American, and I'm exercising my RIGHT to disagree with you. I think communism is the worst possible form of political system in the world. Is democracy perfect?? Far from it, but at least I can express my opinion openly and freely without having to worry about the government tossing my butt in prison because "they" don't like it.

Do I think California is a communist state?? You bet I do. Right now, I would be a fellon as soon as I walked in the state because I happen to own firearms that are now illegal there. Would I willingly give up my 2nd ammendment RIGHT to "Keep and bare arms"?? Hell no!!! I would fight anyone who tried to take them away from me.

You obviously think that communism is something that should have survived, and that the "good old USSR" should still be around. Since it isn't you live in California which I guess is the next best thing to the USSR.

Me...I love my freedoms that are guaranteed under the Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United States of America. Yes I would willingly die to protect and defend those freedoms.

How many years of propaganda fed news did I listen to in order to spit this out. NONE!!!! I have read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independance. I choose to belive that the rights afforded to me and YOU by those laws and ideas are worth dying for. Anyone that loves their freedom should feel the same way. My opinion is that if your not willing to give up everything including your life to defend what you have...you don't deserve it in the first place.

Chairboy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2005, 11:21:06 AM »

http://www.thoseshirts.com/lousy.html

Russian · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:10:29 PM »

You assume too many things, Hornet33. My position on this; world powers should be balanced. Keep your freedom to yourself and within your own land boundaries. Do not impose anything on others since others do not share same values as you. It’s that simple.

Also, people enjoyed living under USSR and they did not gain anything which they didn’t have after USSR collapsed. People actually lost more than gained, and what they gained appears negative on the society. Do not give me this ‘evil empire’ BS, learn something about Russia and then spur out your ‘free’ opinions.

(FYI: I’m a US citizen, Republican, served in US military, weapons owner and hate Kali, just as you)

Hornet33 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:18:09 PM »

OK here's my thoughts on the USSR. Under communist rule, all the basic freedoms we hold dear in this country were not allowed there. I agree to each there own, but I also consider a political system such as that a threat to my way of life. I also belive that all human beings no matter where they live have the right to basic freedoms. The fact that a majority of the worlds population is denied this is a traject fact of life.

Russian · « **Reply #21 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:29:45 PM »

Could you elaborate this ‘basic freedom’?
And what gives you the right to impose your ‘basic freedom’ on others?
How exactly was other political system ‘threat to [your] own life’?

takeda · « **Reply #22 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:35:39 PM »

My take on this is that many of the ugly things about the USSR were in fact rehashed ugly things from Tsarist Russia, and are still there in modern "free" Russia.
Those saying that FSB = KGB might just think of them as replacements for the Tsarist Okrana. Same old, same old.
So at the end, communism there has been the most painful transition from a quasi medieval feudal system to a "cleptocracy". I suspect the average Russian just tries to drink his way past it all.

Suave · « **Reply #23 on:** December 12, 2005, 12:50:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Russian
Could you elaborate this ï¿½basic freedomï¿½?
And what gives you the right to impose your ï¿½basic freedomï¿½ on others?
How exactly was other political system ï¿½threat to [your] own lifeï¿½?

Lets start with being free to eat your own food?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/08/news/famine.php

Russian · « **Reply #24 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:00:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Suave
Lets start with being free to eat your own food?

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/08/news/famine.php

Lets start with something 'more' modern. I can bring out many things on US too from 'old' times. Try to find something from 70-80s. During 'Stalin' times, Russia was evil with which I do not disagree.

Boroda · « **Reply #25 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:09:36 PM »

Famine was a bad heritage from Russian Empire. USSR avoided mass-starvations since late-40s. Under Czar such things happened almost every year.

I love such arguments. "Talking about the taste of lobsters with people who did eat them" (c) Michail Zhvanetskiy.

Hornet33 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:16:43 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Russian
Could you elaborate this ‘basic freedom’?
And what gives you the right to impose your ‘basic freedom’ on others?
How exactly was other political system ‘threat to [your] own life’?

Basic freedom's. The right to free speech, the right to practice whatever religion I choose. The right to question the political leaders of my country. The right to choose where and how I live. The right to pretty much do whatever I want to do as long as it does not take away the rights of other people. Most importantly the right to defend my rights.

I never said I was going to impose my belives on others, however there are many governments out there, the USSR being one of them when it was around, that would and do impose "their" belives on others. During the time of the USSR, if I were to go on National TV in the USSR and say that I thought Stalin was a raging lunitic and needed to be kicked out of office, I would have been shot, and my family sent to the gulag if they were lucky. I would not have had the right to speak out against the government.

Any political system that would take away my right to all of the above is a threat to my WAY of life. Never said it was a threat to my physical self. I would however fight to protect my rights, and if that means putting myself in physical danger to do it, so be it.

Yeager · « **Reply #27 on:** December 12, 2005, 01:23:17 PM »

Russia is da shizzle

StarOfAfrica2 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 12, 2005, 02:34:40 PM »

Funny. I know 5 or 6 people who immigrated to America from Russia. All of them are intelligent and hardworking, VERY outspoken, and very UNcritical of the homes they left behind. To a person, economics was their driving force to immigrate, not politics. I've never been to Russia. I acknowledge that our govornment is filled with lying bottomfeeders, and likely so is theirs. Why should I believe what basically amounts to propaganda from either side? Someday when I have the time to travel, I hope to visit and see for myself what it's like.

If you just automatically buy into the crap the govt. had a vested interest in having you believe, you are a bit naive.

Hornet33 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 12, 2005, 02:58:59 PM »

The thing is I have traveled to some of the former soviet states and have seen first hand what goes on there. The people I got to meet were great. The Governments sucked. That was my observations while I traveled there in 2001.