Why have we let politics do this to us?

[Rolex]

I agree with you, Charon.

You know, GtoRA2, a little bell rang in my head when I got to the 2nd line because right off the bat, not everyone is an American. I don't think that those values are the exclusive domain of Americans only. Ethnocentrism of all kinds, including nationalism, creates divisions.

In normal, everyday interactions, we can choose who and how we associate with others. The media is one way and the internet is an anomaly of human interaction. I think movies, television and radio have consciously created a culture of cyncism and sarcasm, and pandered to the lowest emotional reactions of people, which is something we aspire to suppress and grow out of as adults.

[GtoRA2]

Rolex
 I aimed at Americans because that is who and what I am.

 It is what I know. It is also the only thing as an american I can have any (yeah yeah I know) influence on.

I just do not know enough about how politics in other nations works to have mentioned them.

Still I think you have an interesting point.

[GtoRA2]

Originally posted by Charon
People don't research issues enough to have an intellectual public debate on the issues. It applies to both the uneducated and educated. How many MBA middle managers at a local manufacturing company read non fiction history or books on contemporary political events? Great at determining Jane missed her numbers for the quarter, but you'd get a blank stare if you asked him for his opinion on the Balfour Declaration. Dry **** to about 90 percent of the population. How many people even read a paper, or if they do beyond the sports or tempo sections? Maybe throw in the business section.

Broadcast journalism is fluff, even when it is seriously approached, and most of the time it is red-faced donutheads yelling at each other for 30 minutes of WWF style infotainment. You need two hours of depth from a program like Frontline to even start to get some knowledge on major issue. The Daly Show, liberal slant and all (though I’ve seen them skewer liberals in return), is about the most honest, quality journalism on television. They ask questions that other reporters, with real careers, would be afraid to ask and lose that beltway insider access and career development.

But some people do know the score. They understand that most people do not know their bellybutton from a hole in the ground, and that you can use common communications and marketing techniques to sway opinion. Real Maslow hierarchy of needs stuff. People like to belong to a group, of course, a SUPERIOR group. People don’t like to take responsibility for mistakes or be wrong.  It only takes a feather, not a sledgehammer, to push those buttons appropriately. The elite “leadership class” knows that the easiest way to achieve their policy goals (liberal, conservative, buzzword c, buzzword d) is through emotion rather than logic. Scare your side enough to get more of yours to the polls than the other side. BURN THE WITCH! Make sure your side can see all the flaws (often legitimate) in the other side but count on them having a knee jerk defense reaction when their side’s warts are exposed (Spitfire vs. Me-109/Ford vs. Chevy/ Kerry vs. Bush).

Common manipulation of human behavior that works if you're selling hemorrhoid cream, policy or a politician. Works so well you can get a doctorate in the techniques. Read case studies on successful campaigns. Test market messages and poll or focus group to apply changes. Tune up your voter base the way someone would fine tune a guitar string. The voter base halfway knows this, but… it’s always THE OTHER SIDE doing the manipulation.

To make a short story long, we don’t have a reasoned debate because the shallow, emotion-based alternative is far easier and more effective. Proven time and time again -- that rare animal that is both an academic and practical reality. We behave the way we are conditioned to behave -- more or less, YMMV.

My great goal in life may be to start a movement to get Marketing 101 taught at the Jr. High or high school level. When they say an "educated consumer is the best consumer" they are lying. That's the last thing anybody wants when they are trying to sell you something (unless they have the exclusive, far superior product).

Charon

Interesting take and in a way I think you said what I was trying to make a point on in a better way. Though yours is more aimed at the why we are they way we are politicaly through manipulation.

Or atleast you have a more acurate picture about how we got here.

[Dago]

Originally posted by beet1e
I think Skuzzy's had a few beers!
I must admit, I've had a few myself this evening!

Don't you mean to admit you have only had a few so far?

[Karnak]

Very nice post GtoRA2.  And I agree with Charon as well.

The things you mention are a large reason I rarely venture into the O' Club any more and usually cringe in anticipation before I do.  Tonight I was looking to see if anybody had put up their review of King Kong.

I still participate in this Soap Box stuff, but just not here as I was tired of the crap that people posted.  The extremist all or nothing points of view, the trashy mass emailing lists, the uselessness of it all.  So I just stopped comming in here as it was a serious detriment to my enjoyment of the forums.  Likewise, the thing that pushed me away from playing AH much was the people who considered the other players to be their captive audience on whom to spew the latest, extremist political talking points.  I don't care which side they spewed, I wanted to play a game, not be told that I am an evil communist by dint of being a Liberal or hear Bush's supporters be compared to Nazis.

The place I now go is definately more Liberal, most internet forums are, but it is not a Liberal oriented site, just a tech site.  While the discourse there does sometimes delve into some pretty nasty places. in general people don't talk past each other (except on evolution vs. Creationism/ID).

As to your expectation that we all want a better America, you are quite right.  There are very, very, very few people who actually hate America yet live here.

Anyways, I am procrastinating.  Back to writing a short essay about cross cultural influences of Islam and Christianity (Eastern and Western) fromthe 8th through 15th centuries.

[Momus--]

Excellent post Charon.

[Jackal1]

I totaly agree on the politics end of it. What I would like to see in a run for office is the focus put back on what the candidate actualy plans to do if elected and how they plan to do it. Seems like in the last few years it has got to the point of one seeing how much dirt they can dig up on the other and vice versa. This is a large percentage of the focus in a campaign, not the actual issues and plans. I think it is sort of a cop out and an easy street to take to avoid the actual issues. Mud slinging don`t feed the bulldog. I want to know what these cats have in mind doing when and if elected. I`d also like to see much more pressure put on being held accountable for what they promise in a campaign.

[lazs2]

I have no problem with anyones politics until they try to tell me what to do for my own good.   Why can't we have a civilized discussion on say... gun control?  well..

How can we?  one group is trying to take away anothers human right to defend themselves.  They are trying to destroy the freedom of choice of another.

How can we have a pleasant discussion on seat belt or helmet laws or adding new taxes?

The right to execute people or kill babies?  

Free speech?

PC, hate crimes AA or any other forms of racism?

how can one group, believing the end of the world is decades away according to their scientists, how can they get along with the ones who's scientists tell em it is all cyclical and not really happening?

How can you not hate socialism?

how does the parent who believes parents should raise their own children get along with the people who think that the government should?

lazs

[storch]

what shane said, a quick glance at the outright slanderous statements in the press made by our founding fathers should demonstrate that this is a time honored tradition here.  I would suppose it to be the same in any western constitutional form of government.  I'll also point out that on at least one occassion the public taunting did result in bullets flying culminating in the death of alexander hamilton and the ruined political career of aaron burr.

it is only in recent times that this rediculous idea of "civility" has crept into the public debate.  let the mud fly, thats how men do it.  the notion of anything else is just sliding us a little further down the path to girlymandom.

look at this very forum, how neutered it's become since the girly8 and the pompom queen have taken to censoring clever and lively debate, albeit at times a little rough around the edges.  only an idiot can be offended by what some other idiot has typed.  draw your own conclusions.

[eagl]

Skuzzy,

You trying to tell us that you're both a moderator AND a troll?

It's ok, we already knew.

[Suave]

PIERRE BERNARD'S RECLINER OF RAAAAAAAGE!

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by Nilsen
make love not politics!

ALL HE IS SAYING

[Phaser11]

Hey
 What does Ethnocentrism mean?

[midnight Target]

If only the conservatives hadn't started this whole mess....


















Merry Christmas Skuzzy.