Author Topic: Curtiss SB2C (Read 879 times)

JSparrow · « **on:** December 17, 2005, 08:40:52 AM »

Read that we probably wouldtn see any new airplanes but this is my wish.

VB-83

Saxman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 17, 2005, 10:54:38 AM »

She'd certainly make people appreciate the Dauntless.

SMIDSY · « **Reply #2 on:** December 17, 2005, 12:03:04 PM »

yah, the helldiver would be a cool addition to the AH inventory. might cause people to use dive bombers instead of just fighters.

Debonair · « **Reply #3 on:** December 17, 2005, 12:44:59 PM »

2000lbs, torpedos, 20mm guns...she'd make some people forget the dauntless

Saxman · « **Reply #4 on:** December 17, 2005, 12:56:18 PM »

Oh, firepower was great, but her handling made the F4U look gentle by comparison. Dauntless was actually tougher, more maneuverable, more stable in a dive (what's the point of twice the bombload if it's harder to keep on target?) and FAR easier and more forgiving to fly. And from every account I've ever read, Navy squadrons equipped with the SB2C hated them and would have preferred to have their Dauntlesses back, and Marine squadrons all but refused them.

They didn't call the Helldiver "Son of a B----, 2nd Class" for nothing.

Krusty · « **Reply #5 on:** December 17, 2005, 01:18:20 PM »

At the time the SB2C was around they didn't use 20mm.. Considering that even later aircraft that replaced it only had 2x50cal I think your source is wrong and that it had 2x50cal in the wings.

From what I understand it was horribly slow, horribly weak, and horrible to fly. It was called "Son of B----, 2nd Class" (SB2C).

I say leave it out until the larger holes in the planeset are filled.

EDIT: And I suspect you want it only so it can be skinned as shown in the image

JSparrow · « **Reply #6 on:** December 17, 2005, 01:36:29 PM »

Quote

EDIT: And I suspect you want it only so it can be skinned as shown in the image [/B]

Well yes, that is one reason. The other reason is that it would complete the Air Group 83 plane set.

Yes it was a pig and it was replaced by the F4U as a Fighter Bomber. Ofter the Yamoto was sunk, there was no need for any more torpedo bombers and VB-83 traded in the SB2C for more F4Us and F6Fs in order to intercept the komikazi planes (sp) aginst the Essex.

Some of us like to fly more than just SpitFires and P-51 Mustangs

If I recall, this is a WISH LIST forum....thats all I did......wish:cry

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** December 17, 2005, 02:31:37 PM »

There, there, dry those tears! For soon Christmas will be here and under your tree may lie a new SB2C!!

Okay maybe not, but you never know

Saxman · « **Reply #8 on:** December 17, 2005, 03:11:36 PM »

That's a detail I forgot, the initial production model (SB2C-1) was actually SLOWER than the Dauntless. IMO to make a worthwhile addition they'd need to go with the late-models (-3/-4 or later). Anything earlier was a step BACK from the SBD in almost every category.

As for guns, most sources I've seen list her equipping 20mm cannon, with a twin .30 in the tail.

Krusty · « **Reply #9 on:** December 18, 2005, 03:22:22 PM »

Did some searching.. seems only the SB2C-1C had the 2x20mm cannon. Before that it had 4x50cal in the wings. Seems out of 6000+ only 700 and change were SB2C-1Cs.

Debonair · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2005, 06:05:25 PM »

Krusty, looking around the 'net I see mainly information that contradicts your persective in the SB2C.
Mostly from here:
http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/
& here:
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/helldiver.html
But a bunch of other site as well
Do you know something they don't know or are you part of some vast nattering nabob of SB2C negativity conspiracy?

1K3 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 18, 2005, 10:34:33 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Krusty
From what I understand it was horribly slow, horribly weak, and horrible to fly. It was called "Son of B----, 2nd Class" (SB2C).

man thats horrible:p

and a max speed of 295 mph is not slow for a dive bomber, it's the fastest US divebomber in WWII. Handling and high speed stability is no good compare to Dauntless

Quote

The Helldiver was ordered into large-scale production in 1940, the prototype making its first flight on 18 December of that year. SB2Cs went into action for the first time on 11 November 1943 in a heavy raid on the major Japanese base of Rabaul, flying from the new Essex Class carrier Bunker Hill.

This large, heavy, impressive and powerful dive-bomber was intended as an improvement on the SBD Dauntless, which it was to replace. However, during ithe SB2C's development it became apparent that there were serious problems with its design. Combat experience, especially at the Battle of the Philippine Sea, revealed that the Dauntless was in fact the superior aircraft. The Helldiver's handling was poor - in particular it had unsatisfactory low-speed stability, and dangerously poor stalling characteristics. It was also unstable in a high-speed dive, and therefore a less accurate bomber than the SBD. Since dive-bombing was the aircraft's raison d'etre, this fault alone was enough to make the SB2C an unacceptable replacement for the Dauntless. However, it was at this stage impossible to reverse the changeover to the Helldiver, and the Philippine Sea battle was the SBD's last major action as a carrier aircraft.

Despite its initial lacklustre showing - and its inherent defects - the SB2C served as the sole shipborne dive-bomber of the US Navy from late 1944 until the end of the war, inflicting immense damage on enemy shipping and installations.

and the Japanese counterpart... the D4Y2 "Suisei" is way faster than SB2C and A6M5. Max speed is at 360mph. D4Y is officially the fastest dive bomber of WWII

Bombload is only 1x 250 kilos and 2x 30 kilos bombs. Max bomb load for kamikaze mission is 800 kilos