Two Stories the US Media Ignored...

[Seagoon]

First an AP article that indicated almost as an aside that the infamous secret wire tap program was actually doing what it was supposed to do:

Secret Program led to arrest of terror plotter from Ohio

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — The National Security Agency has been eavesdropping on Americans and others inside the United States without getting search warrants — a project that led to the terror conviction of a Columbus man two years ago, officials told The New York Times.

President Bush authorized the program in the months after the Sept. 11 attacks, the Times reported Friday.

The order Bush signed in 2002 has allowed the agency to monitor the international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States, the report said.

Government officials credited the new program with uncovering several terrorist plots, including one by Iyman Faris, a central Ohio trucker who pleaded guilty in 2003 to supporting al-Qaida by planning to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge.

A federal judge in Virginia sentenced Faris in October 2003 to 15 years in prison for aiding and abetting terrorism, plus five years for conspiracy.
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And then second... Recent news from the original home of the French riots, Clichy-Sous Bois, which of course has nothing to do with the wider Jihad and of course claims that Terrorist cells in France were operating in the city and encouraging the rioting were all puff...
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French agents arrest three with suspected links to Zarqawi

 French counterterrorism agents arrested three suspects in a network with alleged ties to al-Qaida in Iraq, seizing guns, explosives and detonators in a sweep north of Paris, officials said Thursday.

The overnight roundup in the suburb of Clichy-sous Bois stemmed from information culled in investigators' questioning of 25 suspects detained in a similar anti-terrorism sweep Monday, officials said.

"Thanks to questioning, a stash of arms has been discovered, which shows how serious this affair is," Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy told reporters. "A certain number of terrorists, in order to finance their activities, are involved in organized crime."

"We think they have indirect links fairly highly placed in the al-Qaida organization," Sarkozy said on the sidelines of an Interior Ministry ceremony honoring police who battled angry youths during three weeks of violence across France that began Oct. 27.

Police found a stash of weapons in a garage in the Parisian suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois, said a police investigator who cannot be identified because his agency does not allow it. Agents found several kilograms of explosives, AK-47 and Famas assault rifles, revolvers, ammunition, balaclavas and bulletproof vests, he said.
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Ok, now we can all resume pretending that if we would just vote Bush out of office, dismantle the war on terror, withdraw from Iraq, and generally return to our pre-9/11 state, everything would be just fine.

[Yeager]

damn them all...violating our civil rights....you know......  

Just to catch a terrorist.  Its not worth it.

[Suave]

Anybody know the legalities of listening to wireless communications? Is it really illegal?

Or is the NSA being accused of doing something more invasive?

[nirvana]

Do not forget Suave, they are the government, they can do ANYTHING.

[Pooh21]

remember McCain thinks enemy combatants should receive the same rights as US citizens. They are innocent until proven guilty. Remember Bush is spying on Americans who communicate with other countries!!! oh noes all of them



McCain at best is mental.
at worst he is Manchurian Canidate 2008

[Staga]

Nice to see Seagoon can justify just about anything

[SOB]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Ok, now we can all resume pretending that if we would just vote Bush out of office, dismantle the war on terror, withdraw from Iraq, and generally return to our pre-9/11 state, everything would be just fine.

Who is it that's pretending that?  It might be a good idea to narrow your sweeping statement a bit.

Nothing is going to guarantee our safety, and the possible benefits that we gain by throwing our right to privacy in the toilet certainly don't outweigh the negatives in my opinion.  If a citizen has suspected ties to a terrorist group, and the feds want to spy on them, then a warrant should be obtained.  If there isn't enough evidence to get a warrant, then there isn't enough evidence to justify spying on the citizen.

And I certainly don't believe wasting our soldiers' lives in Iraq has done anything to make us safer, though simply withdrawing them at this point would be more irresponsible than sending them there in the first place...just finish up and get the hell out.  The money we've poured into the war over there would have been much better spent securing our borders and curbing the huge illegal immigration problem we currently have...of course, that wouldn't be terribly popular when the price of produce goes up, so that'll never happen.  Security at the cost of votes isn't a game that any politician is likely to play.

George Bush is a worthless heap of garbage.  He'll be out in another three years, and chances are pretty good than another heap of garbage will be hoisted in his place.

[Momus--]

Seagoon,

The secret wiretap issue has only surfaced comparatively recently and you're complaining that the case of a single terrorist convicted almost 3 years ago isn't being cited by the media as a positive example, despite the fact that at the time it was made quite clear that provisions of the so-called Patriot Act facilitated the decection of Iyman Faris and not secret and possibly illegal eavesdropping? Is that all you have got?

Clichy-Sous Bois, which of course has nothing to do with the wider Jihad and of course claims that Terrorist cells in France were operating in the city and encouraging the rioting were all puff...

The French riots were being directed by terrorist cells? Source please.

French agents arrest three with suspected links to Zarqawi

How can you claim this is being ignored by the US media? A quick search brings up:

CNN NBC CBS ABC

In fact the only major network site I couldn't find the story on was Fox News.  

As for your ridiculous straw man example in closing, SOB says it all.

[john9001]

secret wiretap? i thought all wiretaps were secret? or do you want to tell the people you are taping that you will be listening?

[Staga]

Who needs a stinking source; it could ruin a nice post spiced up with a little of bigotry and schitsophrenia

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Seagoon

Ok, now we can all resume pretending that if we would just vote Bush out of office, dismantle the war on terror, withdraw from Iraq, and generally return to our pre-9/11 state, everything would be just fine.

Wasn't Colin Powell the one that said "we broke it, we bought it"?

[Seagoon]

Hi All,

My apologies for not making clear what I was trying to get at. First, the media is in a feeding frenzy over the wiretap program (which congress was informed about) and yet it fails to point out that the program was only used 30 times and did actually produce results because that might actually cause the public to see it as a necessary evil.

The issue is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't one." The American public and the media would have gone berzerk had the Brooklyn Bridge been dropped into the Hudson - "HOW WAS THIS ALLOWED TO HAPPEN? WHY WASN'T IT DETECTED?!", but the media is equally incensed by the very program that exposed the attack prior to its being carried out. Simply put, these programs are the pricetag for preventing further terrorist attacks within the country and yet we are proceding down a route that will lead to their being dismantled. When they are, and the USA is successfully attacked, the finger pointing will once again begin. Historically, in wartime the civil rights of US citizens have been somewhat curtailed, this was true right back to the Civil War and certainly the case during the Second World War. The question is put, what is more important to you, lives, property, and the successful prosecution of the war, or the absolute maintenance of rights? Is the Brooklyn Bridge a fair trade for the assurance that an agent isn't secretly listening to calls to and from suspected terrorists? There is also the problem that the Jihadists themselves are more than willing to exploit every legal loophole they can in pursuing the Jihad:

"Use their systems, passports, citizenship, laws, traditions, books and media, create internal divisions among them, and inflict defeat on the kuffars [infidels], for in the current balance of power, all we need to do is to use their weaknesses as our strength." – Abul ala’, comment posted in the Al-Ansar chat room, September 2005.

For more perspective on the real cost of the program and dismantling it click here:

Undermining the War at Home

The Author of the Article Above is Walid Phares, here is his bio - "Walid Phares is currently MSNBC/NBC terrorism and Mideast expert and a senior fellow with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies in Washington. He has been a Professor of Middle East Studies and Ethnic and Religious Conflict at Florida Atlantic University and lectures worldwide. He regularly appears on NBC, Fox News, CNN, BBC, C-Span, Voice of America, al Jazeera, al Hurra, NPR International, and Abu Dhabi TV, among others and is a frequent contributor to US and international radio programs."