More patriot act discuss

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Masherbrum
No way in hell Sharpton wins.  No way in hell.  

Karaya

You miss the point, my friend.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The enemy you cannot see and cannot quantify is far more dangerous than the one you can. Only a fool thinks otherwise. If you don't think that a person you cannot identify as the enemy, operating in your midst, and willing to die in order to kill you, is more dangerous than an enemy that is known and visible, not to mention somewhat at arms length, and who has as much to fear from you as you of them, you qualify for the second sentence.

Saddam Hussein comes to mind. He was the devil we knew. Unfortunately, we can't pull out of Iraq until we locate the new devil.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Hemoragic fever, or Ebola.

Its proven that terrorists were trying to get their hands on live cultures of this.

Can you think of anything scarier?

Or perhaps terrorists gain control, & plunder a former USSR bio research lab.

Gee, we could have people dieing from botulism, Tullermemia the plague all at the same time.

Fact remains that the USSR had something to lose, Mutual Assured Destruction worked as a deterant.

It just makes terrorists drool.

Ghost, assured distruction is awaiting the muslim people from the USA if the terrorist ever do succede in using WMD's on the US.  How can the patriot act keep bacteria and viruses out of the US and not keep Heroine and cocaine out?  History has shown that Mutally assured destruction is the most effective way to prevent a war.  Only this one has a twist.  The US wont be destroyed but the muslim people will be.  Its a 'go ahead, make my day' kind of deterent.

[Sandman]

"Bring 'em on!" - George W. Bush

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
The enemy you cannot see and cannot quantify is far more dangerous than the one you can. Only a fool thinks otherwise. If you don't think that a person you cannot identify as the enemy, operating in your midst, and willing to die in order to kill you, is more dangerous than an enemy that is known and visible, not to mention somewhat at arms length, and who has as much to fear from you as you of them, you qualify for the second sentence.

Do you really think the USSR didnt have spies in the US?  Do you really think the USSR didnt have opeeratives in the US?  Do you really think they registered as such when the came abroad so we didnt have to adjust our constitution?  My oh my.  I sure hope the world turns out to be so simple.

[Hornet33]

I never said give up rights. The point is anyone with the right equipment and training can listen in on a phone conversation. I know how to do it and I have the equipment at work to do it. A telephone is not a "private" thing. If you want to talk to someone in private and be 100% sure that no is listening, you have to be face to face in the middle of no where. That is private. The fact that the NSA has identified  phones overseas used by suspected terrorist and is monitoring those numbers is no supprise. The fact that phones in the U.S. are calling those numbers and having conversations is a cause for concern. Those calls are being monitored for intel on terrorist activities. The Patriot Act gave the NSA the authority to do this by direction of the President. It was legal. Old Mohamed (legal U.S. citizen) in New York is calling his brother Achmed (suspected terrorist) in the middle east somewhere talking about how lax security is at JFK International is a problem. Hell yeah NSA needs to be listening in on that phone call. The FBI needs to start checking out Old Mohamed and see who else he talks to, where he goes, and what he does.

No one wants the government to do anything that "MIGHT" violate their privacy but the next attack that happens those are the same people that will scream bloody murder that the government should have known about it and done something to stop it.

[Shamus]

Hope you guys are all of the same opinion about how great these new executive powers are when H. Clinton starts to wield them.

shamus

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Hornet33
I never said give up rights. The point is anyone with the right equipment and training can listen in on a phone conversation. I know how to do it and I have the equipment at work to do it. A telephone is not a "private" thing. If you want to talk to someone in private and be 100% sure that no is listening, you have to be face to face in the middle of no where. That is private. The fact that the NSA has identified  phones overseas used by suspected terrorist and is monitoring those numbers is no supprise. The fact that phones in the U.S. are calling those numbers and having conversations is a cause for concern. Those calls are being monitored for intel on terrorist activities. The Patriot Act gave the NSA the authority to do this by direction of the President. It was legal. Old Mohamed (legal U.S. citizen) in New York is calling his brother Achmed (suspected terrorist) in the middle east somewhere talking about how lax security is at JFK International is a problem. Hell yeah NSA needs to be listening in on that phone call. The FBI needs to start checking out Old Mohamed and see who else he talks to, where he goes, and what he does.

No one wants the government to do anything that "MIGHT" violate their privacy but the next attack that happens those are the same people that will scream bloody murder that the government should have known about it and done something to stop it.

Ok, hornet, good point.  Pre patriot act, step 1.)  produce the evidence to a judge.  2.) request a warrant  3.) recieve a warrant when the judge finds reasonable suspicion (Sp?) 4.) wire tap mohamed and protect the US.  You see, this system works, and in the event of iminent danger, I can see a patriot act that allows wire tapping or surveillence during the warrant aquisition, but to completly elinate all records of surveillence on US citizens is unamerican and quite frankly, I am suspicious.

[WhiteHawk]

Originally posted by Shamus
Hope you guys are all of the same opinion about how great these new executive powers are when H. Clinton starts to wield them.

shamus

Thats exactly the point.  Its all fine and dandy when the young republicans are peeking in on you and yours but what about the ghetto youth when the next administration starts the inner city revival program and awards govt jobs to people based on thier lack of opportunities.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by Shamus
Hope you guys are all of the same opinion about how great these new executive powers are when H. Clinton starts to wield them.

shamus

LOL...do you mean like president Gore or president Kerry.

[weaselsan]

Originally posted by WhiteHawk
Thats exactly the point.  Its all fine and dandy when the young republicans are peeking in on you and yours but what about the ghetto youth when the next administration starts the inner city revival program and awards govt jobs to people based on thier lack of opportunities.

All government jobs are being outsourced to India.

[Gunslinger]

what some of you guys are missing is the fact that this program HAD oversite and it wassn't just a blanket permission slip to spy on anyone.  If they had a lead that somone offshore was calling somone onshore they could tap the phone.  Then who ever the next person called they could tap as well.  To me it doesn't look any different than having probably cause.  

WHat I see worse than this is the fact that the NY Times ran the story and put Americans at risk to sell news papers (all though I think the Agenda runs deeper, They 0bviously ran this on election day in Iraq for a reason)

But yea let's just keep playing politics with national security and find out what "grave concequences" really means.

[SOB]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
WHat I see worse than this is the fact that the NY Times ran the story and put Americans at risk to sell news papers (all though I think the Agenda runs deeper, They 0bviously ran this on election day in Iraq for a reason)

Wow.

[midnight Target]

And people wonder how fascists could possibly take over a Country.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by midnight Target
And people wonder how fascists could possibly take over a Country.

yup if the democrats had there way the fascists would in fact be ruling.

Here's the CICs own words.  If you think you can bust him on them go for it, I'd like to see what you can come up with.

In the weeks following the terrorist attacks on our nation, I authorized the National Security Agency, consistent with U.S. law and the Constitution, to intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations. Before we intercept these communications, the government must have information that establishes a clear link to these terrorist networks.

This is a highly classified program that is crucial to our national security. Its purpose is to detect and prevent terrorist attacks against the United States, our friends and allies. Yesterday the existence of this secret program was revealed in media reports, after being improperly provided to news organizations. As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have, and the unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk. Revealing classified information is illegal, alerts our enemies, and endangers our country.

As the 9/11 Commission pointed out, it was clear that terrorists inside the United States were communicating with terrorists abroad before the September the 11th attacks, and the commission criticized our nation’s inability to uncover links between terrorists here at home and terrorists abroad. Two of the terrorist hijackers who flew a jet into the Pentagon, Nawaf al Hamzi and Khalid al Mihdhar, communicated while they were in the United States to other members of al Qaeda who were overseas. But we didn’t know they were here, until it was too late.

The authorization I gave the National Security Agency after September the 11th helped address that problem in a way that is fully consistent with my constitutional responsibilities and authorities. The activities I have authorized make it more likely that killers like these 9/11 hijackers will be identified and located in time. And the activities conducted under this authorization have helped detect and prevent possible terrorist attacks in the United States and abroad.

The activities I authorized are reviewed approximately every 45 days. Each review is based on a fresh intelligence assessment of terrorist threats to the continuity of our government and the threat of catastrophic damage to our homeland. During each assessment, previous activities under the authorization are reviewed. The review includes approval by our nation’s top legal officials, including the Attorney General and the Counsel to the President. I have reauthorized this program more than 30 times since the September the 11th attacks, and I intend to do so for as long as our nation faces a continuing threat from al Qaeda and related groups.

The NSA’s activities under this authorization are thoroughly reviewed by the Justice Department and NSA’s top legal officials, including NSA’s general counsel and inspector general. Leaders in Congress have been briefed more than a dozen times on this authorization and the activities conducted under it. Intelligence officials involved in this activity also receive extensive training to ensure they perform their duties consistent with the letter and intent of the authorization.

This authorization is a vital tool in our war against the terrorists. It is critical to saving American lives. The American people expect me to do everything in my power under our laws and Constitution to protect them and their civil liberties. And that is exactly what I will continue to do, so long as I’m the President of the United States.