Author Topic: It is going to happen... (Read 2096 times)

texace · « **on:** July 18, 2001, 02:48:00 PM »

Much as everyone hates to admit it, it will happen. All this s*** stirred up by the missile defense system is only going to become worse. Someone is going to get pissed off and push the red button. I would advise in the next 3 years move away from any large cities or major military production facility. I don't like the way this is turning out.

Remember the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well I think Bush is going under "If it ain't broke, yer not trying."
I appreciate the effort, but I think he could have left well enough alone.

Russian · « **Reply #1 on:** July 18, 2001, 02:57:00 PM »

Wasn't this going on since 60's? Whats the point? If we launch nukes or they, we'll both die...

Toad · « **Reply #2 on:** July 18, 2001, 03:12:00 PM »

Yeah, it's Bush.... or was it Clinton that deferred the decision to deploy? He could have killed the project, couldn't he?

This project proceeded with full funding for 8 years under Clinton, didn't it? Had plenty of chances to leave it out of the budget didn't he? Wonder why Clinton didn't do that.

Nah... you're right, it's Bush. Blame HIM for what Clinton didn't do to please you.

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]

john9001 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 18, 2001, 03:26:00 PM »

"". Someone is going to get pissed off and push the red button. ""

yeah , right....i think someone watches too many die hard movies

buhdman · « **Reply #4 on:** July 18, 2001, 03:29:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
Yeah, it's Bush.... or was it Clinton that deferred the decision to deploy? He could have killed the project, couldn't he?

This project proceeded with full funding for 8 years under Clinton, didn't it? Had plenty of chances to leave it out of the budget didn't he? Wonder why Clinton didn't do that.

Nah... you're right, it's Bush. Blame HIM for what Clinton didn't do to please you.

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]

Hey, this things been going on longer than Clinton ... I worked on the original Site Defense Program when I worked for TRW way back in 1975. Of course, back then there was a bit more concern, than today, but it seems that politicians on both sides of the house have been keeping this one alive.

Sandman · « **Reply #5 on:** July 18, 2001, 03:37:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
Yeah, it's Bush.... or was it Clinton that deferred the decision to deploy? He could have killed the project, couldn't he?

This project proceeded with full funding for 8 years under Clinton, didn't it? Had plenty of chances to leave it out of the budget didn't he? Wonder why Clinton didn't do that.

Nah... you're right, it's Bush. Blame HIM for what Clinton didn't do to please you.

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]

This isn't entirely true. Sure... the plan in each Program Objective Memoranda (POM) is for 6 years, but the budget doesn't get authorized until approximately two years prior to the execution year. Need to refresh my memory on the Planning, Programming and Budgeting System (PPBS) but the money is not budgeted even six years in advance, let alone eight.

For example, we are currently in a POM review year for FY03 and beginning preparations for POM04 submittals. It's been only a few months since we've seen the President's Budget for FY02.

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

Toad · « **Reply #6 on:** July 18, 2001, 03:40:00 PM »

Exactly, Buhdman.

Every single US Citizen has had a hand in this. We don't watch what Congress is doing and we don't toss out the people that aren't doing what we desire.

Notice how it's always the OTHER states' Congressmen that are screw-ups? It's never "our" guy... it's "your" guy that's porking the program.

So now let's hang this all on GWBj. Forget Clinton just had 8 years to speak out against it.

It's a long way from passing Congress for deployment. Let's see how many of these Chicken Littles actually take the time to write their "good" Congressman and my "bad" Congressman... in fact all the little Congressmen... when the time comes to speak their will on the subject.

Don't hold your collective breath!

Sandman, each year the President submits a budget though, correct? For the upcoming fiscal year? Who, in the end, holds the responsibility for what is submitted to the Congress in the budget?

I believe it's the President, correct? Each President (theoretically) chooses what to leave in and what to leave out?1

[ 07-18-2001: Message edited by: Toad ]

Jigster · « **Reply #7 on:** July 18, 2001, 03:57:00 PM »

It's a very large green button actuallty.

Sandman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:00:00 PM »

True. The President's Budget comes out every year, but the plan is not necessarily his. The services submit their budget proposals for ultimate approval by the President. Sure, Clinton could have simply squashed the program, but then there would probably still have been some latitude for the services to conduct technology demonstrations and experiments without it being a full-blown defense program. There's nothing in the ABM treaty (I believe) that prohibits the United States from investigating ABM technologies; we simply can't field anything.

The difference between Clinton and Bush is the intent. Bush intends to field an ABM system.

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

Doesn't matter what color the button is. If a nuclear war happens, not much will survive. Earth will certainly become uninhabitable.

I think that all sides that possess nuclear weapons know this. Why do you think they haven't outright just launched them when they wanted to?

It's a last resort weapon.

What we should be afraid of are those unstable smaller nuclear countries that have their head powers capitulating weekly.

You never know who will be dangling their hand over the launch button the next week.
-SW

Toad · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:02:00 PM »

Really?

So what then was Clinton's intent in funding it throughout his Presidency?

Eagler · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:04:00 PM »

hope it doesn't happen before 1.08

"paranoia - big destroyer"

I think you have a better chance of winning the lottery than dying in a nuclear war

Eagler · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:08:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad:
Really?

So what then was Clinton's intent in funding it throughout his Presidency?

to pass the buck, like he did other most things that Bush is getting blamed for now, 6 months vs 8 years. FBI is another great example. It was one big party up there for the last eight years and Bush looks like the bad guy trying to get it straight again.

Yoj · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:18:00 PM »

Funny how this kind of discussion always divides along party lines. I can't see a party difference on this (or most things), and it certainly has nothing to do with Clinton or Bush (or Bush pere, for that matter). If you want to blame any president, look at Reagan, since SDI started with him. But it wasn't his idea either.

It was Ike who spoke about the "Military/Industrial Complex", and thats where stuff like this comes from. Projects acquire their own inertia and are maintained by political "best interests", and don't give a damn about parties.

- Yoj

Toad · « **Reply #14 on:** July 18, 2001, 04:22:00 PM »

Yoj shoots! Yoj scores!

I agree.

It is up to the Citizenry to exercise oversight.

We didn't. So we don't have the right to b*tch now.

When it comes up for the deployment vote we get another chance.

As if the great mass of Entertainment Tonight! worshippers will even notice.