Why so many people complain that german planes suck but still retains good K/D ratio?

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by 1K3
WTF USAAF fighters were massacered by pre-WWII IAR fighters????

The MA needed the IAR-81c more than three more Spits and more 109's.  The IAR was an exceptional craft that was more than capable of besting ANY Allied craft.   When first encountered, this very plane was mistaken for a FW-190.

I have tried to lobby 3 years for it's introduction into the MA.  

Karaya

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Zazen13
I never understood why they were willing to sacrafice so many in a risky, long-ranged, low altitude attack for Ploesti. I understand the need to damage oil storage and refineries and their infrastructure, but at the expense of so many highly trained air crews?

Zazen

Ploesti's demise was the straw the broke the Nazi's back.   The Scharhorst raid with Swordfish was by far worse.  Watching our guest speaker (Curval's Fairey Swordfish pilot) nearly come to tears and remain silent for almost ten seconds was an experience I will never forget.  I was hoping noone would ask him that question, but someone did.  His reply from the silence to his ending of the speech is ingrained in my mind forever.  What those guys were "expected to do" was larger than "Cast Iron Balls", more like Titanium Balls.

Karaya

[JAWS2003]

Originally posted by Silat
As the 190 went over my head I saw three more making a pass at me from my left.  I turned so fast I lost Joe Morrison.  I missed my shot that time
but when these three went over me they went after Morrison.  I saw three
190s diving on another 38.  I snap shot at the leader from about 90 degree
deflection.  I hit his left wing and shredded the aileron.  He fell off on
his wing and went in.  He was so low there was no chance for him to
recover.  I kept on going around to my left and shot at the second one with
was going away from me on my left.  I hit him, but I am not sure if he went
in.  I know I knocked a bunch of pieces off his cowling and fuselage but I
didn't have time to see what was happening to him.

I looked to my 2 o'clock and here comes another 190 right at me.  It was
too late for me to turn.  I just shut my eyes and hunched down in the
cockpit.  I thought I had bought the farm right there.  But he missed me,
he never even hit my ship.  I think he missed me because I was going so
slowly.  He overestimated my speed and was overleading me.  I started to
turn his way and when he went behind me I continued on around. There was
another one out there so I closed in on him.  I took aim, fired but my guns
only fired about ten rounds and quit.  I was out of ammo.  I damaged him a
bit but he flew away.

I cannot over emphasize what a melee that was.   There were at least twelve
P38s in that little area, all of them at very low altitude.  Somewhere
between 25 and 30 190s were also there.  None of us were at more then 200
or 300 feet and some were quite a bit lower.  The topography was kind of a
little hollow with hills on each side.  It was by far the wildest melee I
saw in sixty odd combat missions I flew.  I heard one guy who had been
wounded pretty badly, scream until he went in.  It was a wild, wild few
minutes.  And a few minutes is all it was.  According to the mission report
from our debriefing the whole fight took something like three to six
minutes.  I had no inkling of elapsed time while it was going on. I was too
damned busy trying to stay alive.

When I woke up to the fact that I was out of ammunition, 600 miles into
enemy territory and all alone, I broke out of the area and went looking for
some company.  In only a few minutes I found one of the other planes in my

There was no FW 190 over Popesti-Leordeni that day, only thid guys:
IAR-81C's of Gr 6 Vinatoare

The 6'th fighter group lost 4 IAR-81's that day two in midair colision and shot down 14 P-38's.
The IAR-80/81 does look like a FW:

[DREDIOCK]

People like to point to an event that happened between planes and say
 "AH HA. See this plane performed better or did this better or that better or was no match for because X plane shot down y number of z planes at such and such an event" .

But that isnt necessarily a true indicator of how good, or bad a plane performed.

ALOT had to due with the quality and training of pilots themselves.
this probably holds true particularly later in the war when the german pilots were more green and less well trained then their allied counterparts.

Even in the game here. a good and experianced P40 pilot can give away alt,E and position and still make short work of a newbie in a spit16

I sometimes question "Was such and such a plane really that good. or were their opponents that bad?"

Often I come to the conclusion that their opponents were that bad.

Take the P51 here for example.
IMO Either its the most grossly undermodeled plane in the game.
Or it isnt all it was made out to be IRL.

I dont know about the rest of you but the Pony isnt one of those planes I particularly worry about in the game. Unless it has a pretty decent stick at the controls I usually view them as a dead target before I ever pull the trigger on them.

I just hope HTC doesnt take too much of the stories of these planes to heart as much as they take the data available on them as far as flight charactoristics are concerned

[MIShill]

For those of us that favor NON T&B planes the 190s are a nice ride. If all you want to do is "Fightertown Furballs" there is no place for the 190. It is a plane that can engage 1v1 if you maintain some E & use your climb & roll advantages. I prefer them now (speaking only from 7 mos. AH experience) along with the C205 because I have a chance against the sharpshooter titanium buffs as well as any fighter IF you chose to maintain your E & SA.
This is certainly an opinionated post for a newbie!LOL
-MI- {Shillelagh}

[wrag]

DREDIOCK

I pretty much agree with you.  Thinkin the pilot, the training, and NUMBERS!

The allies had such numbers!

The Sherman tanks were EXPECTED to lose 3 for 1 against the panzers.

Thinkin there was a similar mindset RE the planes.

Ya the pony, the jug, etc. had some good flight charactoristics.  But thinkin the 109s and 190s if flown by a well trained pilot were pretty effective, and something the allied pilots needed to worry about.

The story of Gunther Rall, I think it was Rall, and all those allied planes that jumped him.  Was pretty much just him against about 4 or 8 allied planes.  They just kept making pass after pass shooting up his plane.  Shot off his thumb IIRC.

Saw someone did a painting of it I think.  Don't have the link anymore.

LOL kinda like the MA any more.  Ya get jumped by several red icons or chase one into a high flight of red icon inb and it's turn and avoid best you can but the number of red icons frequently insures your goin down.

[Sable]

Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Often I come to the conclusion that their opponents were that bad.

Take the P51 here for example.
IMO Either its the most grossly undermodeled plane in the game.
Or it isnt all it was made out to be IRL.

I dont know about the rest of you but the Pony isnt one of those planes I particularly worry about in the game. Unless it has a pretty decent stick at the controls I usually view them as a dead target before I ever pull the trigger on them.

I remember reading a quote from some fighter pilot saying something to the effect of "Good flying never killed anyone yet" and another saying that the winner was usually the pilot who made the fewest mistakes.  

I think your point about the P-51 holds true for all the airplanes - if you put an average pilot in them, your going to see average results.  But at the same time, if you put an ace in it, they are very dangerous.  The P-51 in particular is basically invulnerable to it's historical opponents if only the pilot maintains his SA and doesn't make any mistakes - but how many can actually do this in practice?