Sukhoi vids

[mora]

In case you want to know more about the F/A-18 shootdown, register at http://acig.org/forum/ and see this thread: http://acig.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1076

Tom   Administrator   Posts: 337   (3/5/01 10:11:32 am)   Reply Some details about the F/A-18C lost on 17 Jan 1991   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Certain details about the loss of the F/A-18C 163484 (AA403), of the VFA-81, flown by Lt.Cdr. Michael Scott Speicher, came to me from two different sources, and I would like to hear some opinions regarding this certainly interesting topic.     As well known, that Hornet - which was on a SEAD mission as a part of a strike package from USS Saratoga (CV-60) - was initially claimed as shot down by one SA-6, and subsequently (in late 1992) it was indicated, that it the plane was downed by an R-40 fired by Iraqi MiG-25PD/PDS. The story about it being an air-to-air kill was initially "aired" by "US-intelligence sources", and then published by - if I remember correctly - Washington Post.     According to stories now going on around in different USN and USAF communities, however, an E-2C Hawkeye from USS Saratoga detected the MiG-25 with the help of its ESM systems, and warned either Lt.Col. Speicher or his whole flight, about its appearance. Also, the crew of the E-2C warned the nearby E-3A Sentry, which was controling the whole situation, giving them the bearing, distance and the course. Supposedly, the crew of the Hawkeye also recorded emissions from Foxbat's fire-control system.     Reportedly, subsequently even ECM-operators on the Sentry made the threat out, but, the radar-operators could not pick the MiG-25 up. Thus, the tactical operator told the Hornets to go on with their mission and disregard the warnings from the Hawkeye. Supposedly, this went so far, that after the F/A-18C was shot down, the crew of the E-3A explained this happened due to a SAM-hit, in order to cover up their own mistakes.     If this all is truth, it would indicate several interesting facts:   a) the MiG-25PD/PDS (not sure about the version: Iraqis initially got MiG-25Ps, which were modified to PDS, but they also have got MiG-25PDs, which were capaple of carrying large drop tanks), acquired their target with the help of their Sapheer-25 radars and most probably fired a mix of SARH-homing R-40DR and IR-homing R-40DT missiles;     b) the engagement most probably happened beyond the visual range;     c) the main problem on the US side was, that USAF's Sentry crews have had a dangerous conceit, namely: "if we can't see it, it's not there".

[Boroda]

Were there any American air losses at all that they confirm? They keep denying losses even if opponents show aircraft wreks...

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Boroda
Were there any American air losses at all that they confirm? They keep denying losses even if opponents show aircraft wreks...

Denying something and refusing to confirm it are two different things.

[john9001]

All i have to say is F22, and after that i will say XF35



the great russian planes get shot down, run away or get blown up in their "bomb proof hangers" and all you anti americans can say is " well you lost one f18, so there"

[indy007]

Russian aircraft are great performers, but if LOMAC has even a touch of realism to it, they're not very easy to fight in compared to an F-15. I especially like the Mig-31.. it's just ... mean. Look down/shoot down, 80k ceiling, mach 2.83 capable, phased array radar, data links, & 10 AAM's.

Bottomline though, stealth is the future of ariel warfare. With about 3/4 of modern kills being with radar guided missles, if you can only see them for the second their weapon bay is open (and only if your radar is pointing directly at them when it happens), all the high alpha manuvers in the world won't save you.