Author Topic: Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?  (Read 3792 times)

Offline Crumpp

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2005, 08:05:35 PM »
Why YES he did.......

:O

Offline MiloMorai

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2005, 08:17:54 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:13:32 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline ghi

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2005, 01:28:28 AM »
See Rule #2
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:13:58 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Guppy35

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2005, 02:12:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kurfürst
See Rule #4


Here's the difference Kurfurst.  Your zeal for the 109 and bashing Spits is fanaticism.  My interest in the history is not.  Your initial claim was 10 Spit IX squadrons in Mid-1944.

You've backed of that one now finally.

No one has said the RAF wasn't still operating Spitfire Vs.  They did until the end of the war.

But these also were not the 1941 Vb that struggled against the 190s.  The 1943 Spitfire LFV was a different bird then the 1941 Spit FV.  

Note the whines forever in AH about the previous Spitfire LFVc we had.  Not a 1941 bird by far.  Performance of the 1943 LFVs was on par with Spit IXs up to certain alts.  The two stage Merlins were geared to give better performance up high.  Kind of like the single stage Griffon III/IV in the XIIs.  Down low it worked.  It wasn't a high alt bird.


And in the end, what is your point?  It's like you are trying to prove that the RAF wasn't on the winning side and that the Spit didn't accomplish anything.  You can't change the history.  Anyone paying attention knows the role the Spit played for the RAF and any number of other air forces.  Despite your bashing, it clearly did it's job and did it well.  End of story no matter how you spin the numbers.

The Spit IX was the dominant air to air Spit from 43 on.  The Spit V had it's role, as did the XII, VI,VII, VIII etc, but the Spit IX was the hunter and the one that equipped the front line squadrons of 11 Group along with the XIIs and the Tiffies.


Be clear on one thing in all this, and this is the last I'm going to respond to your stuff.  There is NOTHING in this discussion, or in AH that is that important to me.  None of it makes me angry or causes me to act the part of a fanatic zealot, to use your terms.  Real world events for me are all that are important, and dealing with the aftermath is the only thing that gets to me emotionally for obvious reasons.  

This stuff is for the most part an escape from that real world stuff.  I wish you'd get a clue on that.  I wish it was possible to have a rationale discussion instead of the never ending 109s are best, Spit suck threads.

Using Crumpp as an example.  The difference between you and he, is that I understand Crumpp's passion for the 190.  He's worked his tail off to learn about it and has strong opinions about it and how it should be modeled in AH, and it's place in WW2 aviation history.  I can respect that, because in the end he's just chasing the history and it isn't about rewriting some sort of propoganda story.  So even when we disagree, I know his intentions are good ones and it isn't about his favorite plane is the best ever and the rest were dogs.  

There are lots of folks like that, and we don't always agree, but they're in it for the sharing of the history and the knowledge.  

You should pay attention to that instead of taking shots at everyone who doesn't agree with you.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:14:21 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Angus

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2005, 03:15:28 AM »
BTW, that LW website is immensly good and full of information. Really worth a look.
Doesn't say much about how often the LW aces were shot down though, - just the last time.
Rudorffer was shot down 17 times for example.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2005, 07:25:38 AM »
Angus,

Name some aces from any side that did not get shot down.  Most of them on multiple occasions.

All the best,

Crumpp

Offline Kurfürst

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2005, 08:28:31 AM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:16:29 PM by Skuzzy »
The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site
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Offline Oldman731

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2005, 09:07:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kurfürst
See Rule #4

Kurfurst, until now I couldn't have imagined that one of the posters in these fora could be so completely ignorant and rude.  You have proven me wrong.  Would you please go crawl back into your wretched little hole, wherever it may be, gnaw at your heart, and leave the rest of us alone?

- oldman
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:17:59 PM by Skuzzy »

Offline Karnak

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2005, 10:34:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Angus,

Name some aces from any side that did not get shot down.  Most of them on multiple occasions.

All the best,

Crumpp

Saburo Sakai wasn't shot down.  Close though.

Hiroshi Nishizawa wasn't shot down.  I don't count him being a passenger ina bomber that was shot down as him being shot down as he wasn't at the controls.

I can't recall Eino Juutilainen ever being shot down, in fact I've heard his fighter was never hit.

How about Hans-Joachim Marseille?

I don't recall George Beurling being shot down, but I could be mistaken.  Same goes for 'Sailor' Malan.
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Offline Angus

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2005, 11:06:30 AM »
Well, my friend Tony Jonsson didn't get shot down, with 1200 hours on the clock in WW2.
Johnny Jonsson didn't get shot down.
Even Douglas Bader is debatable, - was probably a collision.
Top NZ guy "Rosie" didn't get shot down. I think Malan was not shot down.
Top scoring RAF nightfighter Benson (Mossie) did not get shot down.
Did Bong get shot down? or Walsh? Or McCampbell?
This is just from memory, as my "Aces High" book is about as thick as the phonebook, hehe...
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Angus

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2005, 11:07:35 AM »
Oh, there may be mistakes there, I didn't check. But it should be about right.
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2005, 11:25:16 AM »
Now Karnak,

How many aces did get shot down multiple times....

A small percentage or the majority?

Adi Glunz saw more combat than most and managed to get out without even a scratch.

Typical??  Of course not.

Offline Crumpp

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #42 on: December 30, 2005, 11:26:50 AM »
Quote
Oh, there may be mistakes there, I didn't check. But it should be about right.


Yes there are mistakes made, Angus.  You would make fewer if you looked things up instead of posting feelings.

All the best,

Crumpp

Offline Kurfürst

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2005, 02:16:37 PM »
See Rule #4
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:19:06 PM by Skuzzy »
The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site
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Offline Oldman731

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Is Spitfire Mk V still the dominat spit mark in mid war?
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2005, 03:32:56 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kurfürst
See Rule #4

With rare exception - one, in fact - the people who enjoy these boards all share a basic level of civility.  There is no reason for us to put ourselves to any trouble at all in order to avoid the kind of pathetic, hateful garbage you posted.  You might have had the good grace to offer an apology.  Instead you post the equivalent of "stop me before I do it again."  I am beginning to better understand why so many of your posts have seemed so sympathetic to the Axis cause.

- oldman
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 01:19:39 PM by Skuzzy »