P51D Tutor Sought

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Krusty
Erm... the P51 is anything BUT a bnz fighter. BNZ fighters need to kill in a snapshot, which 50cals cannot. bnz fighters do what they do because the only advantage they might have is firepower and diving speed, while the pony can turn VERY well to boot.

P51 is not a bnz plane. While you might play at it, it's stupid because you can't kill with a snapshot, you have to get in and fight to get the kill.

you are on crack.


You have to learn to shoot with 50 cals before you can become successful with a 51. Aim for small parts, wing tips, tails, cockpits. Dont just shoot at a plane to hope in the off chance of something coming off.


Statements like this irk me. They give a new player a completely false idea of the way things are.  Because you have poor success with the 51's 50 cals, doesnt mean they aren't any good.


The 51 is one of the best BnZ fighters in the game. If not THE best. There is nothing I fear when im flying it. Not only is it a great BnZ fighter, it stall fights great, turns great and is just a bad ass, plane.

[wonton]

Right with morph on this one. Check out the 'Runstang' video for some inspiration, I know it got me to hop in one and give it a try. Who was that flying for that video, was it you morpheus? Regardless, it was insipiring

[Sketch]

GrmRpr and crowMAW are the main 2 that come to mind for me.

Well the only time I fought him repeatedly 1 on 1 in the MA, he was in a p51 I was in a 190a5. We did a couple of merges and he was doing the lame shoot-in-the-face and extend routine, so I obliged in a vertical HO and killed him. I had fun nonetheless, so I PMed him a salute and a "good fight" to which he replied "Nice HO dweeb!". After that he was more timid in his p51 as we kept meeting 1v1. He usually had more and more alt every time, in the course of about 5 engagements.

So you HO as well.... I'll remember that when I am in my 110!

That only means he's timid, opportunistic, and cherry picks Can't go by score alone.

See what Hornet33 said....

Erm... the P51 is anything BUT a bnz fighter. BNZ fighters need to kill in a snapshot, which 50cals cannot. bnz fighters do what they do because the only advantage they might have is firepower and diving speed, while the pony can turn VERY well to boot.

You can't?  Well you better go let crowMAW know that as he has done that alot, I think he got me 4 times in under 20 minutes..... all one quick pass and then I was sitting in the tower drinking some tea! And with it 'turning' so well, yes it does turn well... but I am not taking it on the deck to screw with a Spit or Niki... I would keep it fast and do one of those snapshot thingy's.

P.S.: Krusty, whats your real nickname when you play?

He won't tell us that... it will let the cat out of the bag....

Funny, a guy ask for help on the 51D and you go all stupid on us.  Now either you know this stuff cause your an expert or your not the brightest crayon in the box...more of that ugly green that no one ever uses.     Tip: Think.... Think again.... then type.

[DoKGonZo]

The game is heavily skewed towards cannon-armed planes, which is one reason P51's tend to be more timid.

General SA kinds of things you can learn in any plane. The Fw's, P51's, F4U's all are flown pretty much the same way, so the same lessons apply to all.

There are fine points to each plane, though ... which is what I'm guessing Casper was after as far as the P51. Finding out what the envelope really is.

[Iceman24]

the pony can do it all, IMO, besides the PJ its the all around uberist ride out there, especially if you like to land kills. And after awhile of playing you'll get used to the 6 ea .50 cals and be able to kill ppl with 1/2 to 1 second bursts like Morpheus was saying you have to actually aim with MG's, instead of just hitting the plane anywhere with a cannon... Oh and BTW I have had some excellent stall fights and turn fights vs. GrmRpr in pony's, he is a good pony stick, so is skatsr... don't let anyone tell ya that the pony sux at stall fighting or turn fighting, it works just as good for me on the deck low and slow as it does at 20k cherry pickin ppl, and because its so fast if you get hit or need to RTB to land kills or whatever, you have the speed to exit the fight without 20+ ppl chasing ya down to land... Pony's are fun fun fun planes to fly

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Casper1
Is GrmRpr a good stick in the 51D?  I dont recall seeing him in game, at least him shooting me down if he is Bish or Rook.

Thanks Morph.

The absolute best advice I can offer you is this.

Take the pony, grab 50% fuel  and beat the living snot out of it in a furball. If you are using the stall limiter in the MA, turn it off. Turn fight with everything you see and expect to die often at first. This is going to do a few things for you. Its going to teach you how to fight each plane in the MA in the pony. Its going to teach you the limits of the 51. Before you know it you will be winning turn fights/stall fights/ect more and more.

The more flaps the better. You will learn when and when not to use them. This is something that cant be taught. Eventually you learn when and when not to grab a notch of flaps, or grab as many as you can. That is something you learn through flying in it and fighting in it.

Learning how to shoot in the pony is just as important as learning how to fight in it. Find a convergence setting that works well for you. I turn fight alot in the 51 so I keep all my guns set to 350. I dont shoot over 400. I aim for, like I said early, smaller, weaker parts... Wing tips, tail part, or If I have a clear shot, the cockpit. A nice quick burst at close range with 6x50's to the cockpit is a good way to kill or wound a pilot.

Believe me when I tell you. The 50cals are not useless. They are very effective. It is very important that you stick to firing at distances in which you have your convergence set at. If you do this, you are going to find that the 6x50s act more along the lines of a chainsaw, rather than a shotgun blast of bird shot.

Going to the DA or TA with someone is great. But its also a good idea to get a good feel for the plane you want to learn before hand. This will give you a good place from which you can use to start learning in the DA or TA.

If I am on line, and not too busy, I will be happy to take a few minutes and go to the DA to help you. Shane is also good in the pony. He's a dirt bag in the MA but is not such a bad guy in the DA. I've had some pretty fun 51 fights among others, with him in the past.

Right with morph on this one. Check out the 'Runstang' video for some inspiration, I know it got me to hop in one and give it a try. Who was that flying for that video, was it you morpheus? Regardless, it was insipiring

Yeah, i made that film from a 51 sortie one night a while back. Glad you like it.

[SkyChimp]

Originally posted by Morpheus
The absolute best advice I can offer you is this.

Take the pony, grab 50% fuel  and beat the living snot out of it in a furball. If you are using the stall limiter in the MA, turn it off. Turn fight with everything you see and expect to die often at first. This is going to do a few things for you. Its going to teach you how to fight each plane in the MA in the pony. Its going to teach you the limits of the 51. Before you know it you will be winning turn fights/stall fights/ect more and more.

The more flaps the better. You will learn when and when not to use them. This is something that cant be taught. Eventually you learn when and when not to grab a notch of flaps, or grab as many as you can. That is something you learn through flying in it and fighting in it.

Learning how to shoot in the pony is just as important as learning how to fight in it. Find a convergence setting that works well for you. I turn fight alot in the 51 so I keep all my guns set to 350. I dont shoot over 400. I aim for, like I said early, smaller, weaker parts... Wing tips, tail part, or If I have a clear shot, the cockpit. A nice quick burst at close range with 6x50's to the cockpit is a good way to kill or wound a pilot.

Believe me when I tell you. The 50cals are not useless. They are very effective. It is very important that you stick to firing at distances in which you have your convergence set at. If you do this, you are going to find that the 6x50s act more along the lines of a chainsaw, rather than a shotgun blast of bird shot.

Going to the DA or TA with someone is great. But its also a good idea to get a good feel for the plane you want to learn before hand. This will give you a good place from which you can use to start learning in the DA or TA.

If I am on line, and not too busy, I will be happy to take a few minutes and go to the DA to help you. Shane is also good in the pony. He's a dirt bag in the MA but is not such a bad guy in the DA. I've had some pretty fun 51 fights among others, with him in the past.

 
Yeah, i made that film from a 51 sortie one night a while back. Glad you like it.

I wouldn't go to TA for that... GrmRpr is a good stick ive had some very very good fights Pony V.s pony end up we both dying at the end of a fight.


Also might look up erebus aka cobra when he comes back maybe even skat


Im (a pony pilot but not the best!)

[Krusty]

Originally posted by ChristCAF
He won't tell us that... it will let the cat out of the bag....

Excuse me, YOU never asked. You implied that I had no account, as did Furball or Fubar (one of those F-names), and neither bothered to ask me, despite me being online at the same time as both of you various times. Hell I've been in the same sector typing/talking with Furby/Fubs (whoever it was) and he still didn't see my VERY OBVIOUS game ID. Gatt asked me directly, simply, and wasn't a jerk about it, so he will get a nice PM.

[Krusty]

As for the P51 and BNZ -- BNZ by its nature is high-speed slashing attacks, usually with little turning and from a high advantage. The high speed and the lack of turning/latching onto a target usually requires cannon-armed plane to make the snapshot do any damage. Having said that, you CAN BNZ in it (the performance of the plane very much lends itself to this -- it can dive well and has a high speed) but for a true BNZ it lacks in the instant-snapshot-damage department. Mind you I respect the plane, but it's not what I'd truly call BNZ. More like a jack of all trades, like an f4u or a la7.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by Krusty
As for the P51 and BNZ -- BNZ by its nature is high-speed slashing attacks, usually with little turning and from a high advantage. The high speed and the lack of turning/latching onto a target usually requires cannon-armed plane to make the snapshot do any damage. Having said that, you CAN BNZ in it (the performance of the plane very much lends itself to this -- it can dive well and has a high speed) but for a true BNZ it lacks in the instant-snapshot-damage department. Mind you I respect the plane, but it's not what I'd truly call BNZ. More like a jack of all trades, like an f4u or a la7.

In other words.....

Originally posted by Krusty
I find it easier for me to kill other planes in a plane that has cannons there for I peronally dont consider the P51 to be a good plane to BnZ with.

La7 is anything but a "jack of all trades". It has speed and fairly good manuverability. In terms of a fighter, it has its Niche in life. And a very small one at that.

Saying the P51 is even close to being on par with an La7 is ludicrous.

[eilif]

the pony has excelent over the nose visibility which allows some great high angle deflection shots, the la7 and corsair are nicely armed but are tougher to see over the nose which really affects your performance in snap shots, canons make up for alot but the pony is great once you learn to pour the shots into their canopy and exploit its great visibility.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Morpheus

La7 is anything but a "jack of all trades". It has speed and fairly good manuverability. In terms of a fighter, it has its Niche in life. And a very small one at that.

The La-7 has a short range, can't carry worthwhile ord, and as I recall doesn't do all that well above 20K or at very high dive speeds. It's great for getting up in a hurry to intercept low bombers or porkdiots, it's great for getting in and out of a nearby furball, it's great for defensive CAP, it's great for 1-way porking missions.

Once you need to travel more than a sector from home base (and, like, get home again), or carry ord, the shortcomings of the La7 become pretty apparent. And if you don't mind giving up a little speed and firepower, the La5 is a better ride.

The P51 can do just about everything well, save for taking down bombers and getting to altitude really quickly ("quick" as defined by the Spit16 or La7 or Yak9).

[Grits]

Dood, the P-51D is a super-EZmode plane, if you cant kill in that you cant kill in anything.

The MOST important thing, and one that most people miss with .50 cal planes, is gun convergence. When you fly, notice when you pull the trigger, then set your convergence to that. Most people have their convergence WAY too far out. It should not under any circumstances be more than 400, and 300-250 is preferable.

If you hit a target AT your convergence point, you will kill it and stop getting assists.

[Spatula]

IMO, if you want to turn your 51 missions from a 1 kill 3 assist mission, to a 4 kill mission, it sounds like you need to brush up on your 50cal gunnery. Check your convergence - i prefer mine all at 350. I think from 300-350 would be a workable range.
If you feel its not your gunnery, then all the same ACM manuevers apply to the P51 as to any other plane, you just need to get to know how they apply to the P51 and how they 'feel'. No-one can you show you this, its something you have to learn yourself though repetition and practice. Spend a complete tour flying nothing but the P51-D and you will start to get the 'feel' of it. There is no magic bullet someone can show you in the TA to make you a uber-pony stick.

Things you should know and should allready know: P51-D has a very average sustained climb rate (its main weakness); combat flaps are you best friend (2-3 notches at times. 1 notch even at very high speeds); Acceleration is fairly average (another weaknes). WEP dont last very long compared to german hardware. Take 50% & DTs, drop 1 on take off, drop the other when your ready to fight. P51-D increases its advantages over most planes above 15k, the P51-B rules above 25K (If your ever up that high). Turn combat trim off and learn manual trimming. The 51s speed allows you to decide when to fight and when not to (escp high up).

Speaking of "king of assists" - fly the P51-B. Its the assist-master!

[crowMAW]

Sketch...thanks for the kudos.

I'm not the best pony pilot by far...I've seen Stang do some stuff in that plane that would dislocate your jaw from dropping open so fast.  But of course Stang can do that in about anything. (want you to show me how to fly that F4U4 sometime, Stang)

Casper...here is a link to our ride today...sorry that tree made it a short ride.    Aslo, there are some other BnZ vids in the pony.  Hope you can see the bullets when I fire in the vids since you couldn't in the ride-along.

Casper1.zip

I don't have a problem with .50cals and BnZ (ask Rauml...hehehe).  Here is a great BnZ vid in an F6F.

CV_at_a22.zip

Convergence is key to .50cals...personally I like 400 and I start shooting at 600.  But that is just me.