Author Topic: Gas on the 51  (Read 1410 times)

Offline PK1Mw

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Gas on the 51
« on: January 01, 2006, 09:38:47 PM »
Quick question. I was watching a program on the pony tonight, and they brought up something that I was curious if its in the game.

Don't remember how they worded it exactly, but they said something about the planes center of gravity being out of whack when the fuselage was full, so they would burn like %40 of the gas out of it first, then go to the wings or drop tanks. This would even the center of gravity and make the plane a little more manuverable. Does HTC actually have this in the game or no?

They also said that 20 and 30mms were a longer range ammo, than the .50s. If that's true, this I know is not in the game. There's some other things that was in there too, I just can't remember though. When I do, I'll post them too.

BTW.. Chuck Yeager's comment on vulching: "Not very sportsman like, I know, but what the hell? It's war." This was about him vulching a 262 when it was on its final approach for a landing.

Offline nimble

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Re: Gas on the 51
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 09:44:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by PK1Mw

They also said that 20 and 30mms were a longer range ammo, than the .50s. If that's true, this I know is not in the game.


Not so sure about the gas, but from my experience(limited) this is true in AH. Most shots with .50's at 800+ just result in a few pings, whereas a couple pings from cannon rounds at this range can do signifigant damage, with accuracy about the same at the .50's when you go for the shot.
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Offline Bodhi

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 10:05:54 PM »
51's fuselage tank with fuel in it throws the CG off kilter, and was usually burned off first, as it was death to go into combat and try to maneuver with fuel in it.

AH does model somewhat the poor handling of the 51 with fuel in it's aux, what it does not model is the departure when the aircraft is outside it's envelope.  Which is 1 and a half turns, and it's hit the silk or die.  The 51's spin is DEADLY.  Corsairs's is worse.  38's is just rediculous to contemplate.

As for range on the 20 / 30 mm being further than a .50, I find it hard to believe.
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Offline Glasses

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 12:51:37 AM »
The AH P-51 has very few flaws it's close to perfection. Compared to the Ah1 P-51 in AH2 is as close as it gets to a turboprop.(Kinda trolling but not really ) :D

Offline Bodhi

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2006, 01:11:09 AM »
Glasses,

The stall and subsequent departure (slow speed) characteristics need to be addressed.  Too many people get the 51 slow, and still they turn and burn, stall, easily recover and fly on.  

That's just not the way a 51 behaves.......
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Offline Glasses

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2006, 01:17:38 AM »
Aye that's why I said it's very difficult(extremely) to get it to stall on extreme maneuvers even with ordinance on.

Offline Saxman

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2006, 02:54:21 AM »
His point is that the P-51 SHOULDN'T be able too.

And actually, most information I've ever seen indicates the P-51 was actually WORSE in that situation than the F4U (low-speed handling and departure characteristics).
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Offline Bodhi

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2006, 03:31:47 AM »
the low speed departure below 10k is lethal
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Offline CHECKERS

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2006, 03:48:08 AM »
Great stuff  for TOD , But not the MA....
Originally posted by Panman
God the BK's are some some ugly mo-fo's. Please no more pictures, I'm going blind Bet your mothers don't even love ya cause u'all sooooooooo F******* ulgy.

Offline Karnak

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 04:28:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by CHECKERS
Great stuff  for TOD , But not the MA....

I disagree.  The highest fidelity flight model they can do should be in both.  If you don't want it then go play X-Wing vs TIE Fighter.

Keep in mind this is not fiddly make work realism, it is core to the aircraft's behavior.

I'd love it of they could model more stuff like that.  Add the Spitfire's wing twisting that resulted in aileron flutter and aileron reversal to the list of aircraft specific problems I'd like to see modeled.  The flutter could be fatal and it is why the aileron on the Mk VIII and Mk XIV are shorter, to try to reduce the flutter.
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Offline EdXCal

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 06:10:42 AM »
As said above, the 20mm rounds are good at long range because there explosive and blow up on impact, there not just slugs like the .50 cals. The 30mm's weren't build for range, just pure power because there explosive too, but there also low velocity, so there range was very limited by that and it's very short barrel.

As for the P-51's, yeah, from what I've read and talked to P-51 pilots (I used to work for the Yankee Airforce before it burned down and there was a P-51 owner on Willow Run with us) that the P-51 has low speed handling problems, but once above 200-250 they were gone, and turn rate was outstanding, the wings were built for life at higher speeds, thats also part of the reason it had such good range, less drag and a high speed (and large fuel tanks)= REALLY long range.

And my last part is actully a question, if the aileron is smaller on the later models of Spits, why does the spit Mk1's roll rate slower then the later models? Damn thing turns like a Zero but rolls like Typhoon! lol

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Offline Furball

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 06:55:01 AM »
mk I had fabric ailerons which were crap.
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Offline CHECKERS

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2006, 08:51:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
I disagree.  The highest fidelity flight model they can do should be in both.  If you don't want it then go play X-Wing vs TIE Fighter

 
Karnak, Take your X-WING vs TIE Fighter sarcasm and stick it right up ur X$$ ! .....
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 08:57:33 AM by CHECKERS »
Originally posted by Panman
God the BK's are some some ugly mo-fo's. Please no more pictures, I'm going blind Bet your mothers don't even love ya cause u'all sooooooooo F******* ulgy.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2006, 08:53:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
51's fuselage tank with fuel in it throws the CG off kilter, and was usually burned off first, as it was death to go into combat and try to maneuver with fuel in it.

AH does model somewhat the poor handling of the 51 with fuel in it's aux, what it does not model is the departure when the aircraft is outside it's envelope.  Which is 1 and a half turns, and it's hit the silk or die.  The 51's spin is DEADLY.  Corsairs's is worse.  38's is just rediculous to contemplate.

 


Are you saying the stall in the AH II P-38 is ridiculous, or that the stall in the real P-38 is ridiculous?

EVERYTHING I've read about the P-38 says that within a revolution or two, it will go nose down and recover with the yoke and rudders neutral. That will still get you killed knife fighting at 1500 feet. But a stall shouldn't be a problem at 10K, and maybe not too much at 5-7K.
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Offline Mugzeee

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Gas on the 51
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 09:19:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
As for range on the 20 / 30 mm being further than a .50, I find it hard to believe.

Wonder if he meant say effective range?
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 09:21:40 AM by Mugzeee »