Author Topic: How does he do that?  (Read 1343 times)

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
How does he do that?
« on: January 06, 2006, 09:49:06 AM »
In another thread, Mussie asked me a bunch of questions that I was going to answer privately, but others requested that I respond in public instead. So here's a thread dedicated to responding to Mussie's questions one by one.

Mussie asked:
How you improved your skills:
- Gunnery
[/I]

I don't believe that people are just born with good gunnery skills unachievable by others. When I started flying air combat sims, my aim sucked just as much as everyone else's. The difference between great aim and poor aim is not genetic; it's philosophical and practical. First, try turning off tracers. I find that tracers clutter my forward view and lead to "walking" the tracers to the target rather than actually aiming at the target. While hit percentage goes down initially, after a couple of weeks it should creep back up again and possibly improve over the previous average. Second, bring the convergence way in rather than out. I set my convergence to 225 for all guns on almost all planes. Why? Because third, get in close to make your kills. It's not that I have great aim so much as I get so close that I can't miss, and at that range my guns converge for an enormously lethal barrage.

Also, you must practice. Good gunnery comes from predicting the flight path of the enemy, of "knowing" when he's going to pop up in front of you, of knowing instinctively how far in front to aim. That's not inbred, but rather that's something you learn from repetition. Make a point of learning which kind of lead works for which kind of situation. Make a map in your head of aim points based on distance and bearing. That sounds difficult, but with practice it becomes intuitive and effortless. If you do not commit to fundamentally improving your aim, then the chances are very good that you won't.

- SA[/I]

I believe it was Morpheus who said it best in another thread: you should only look forward in a furball when you're ready to fire your guns. At all other times, you should force yourself to look around and scan what's going on around you. A good way to practice acquiring enemies is to fly offline and pull various maneuvers around your base while keeping an eye on the AI planes flying above you. See if you can complete a complex set of moves without once losing sight of one plane you've singled out. The key is keeping your bearings while not actually looking forward.

Also, with practice you'll create kind of an intuitive 3D map in your head of what's going on around you in a furball. You will pick out dots from far away and see which must be the fast BnZers, which must be the low and slow ones, and which ones are coming or going. You can tell in the middle of a fight who's likely to be in on you within a minute and who is not an immediate threat. That kind of mental map only comes from furballing repeatedly and making a point of noting the locations of all friendlies and enemies. Try to predict what's going to happen. Try to predict who's going to shoot you down. Try to predict who you are going to shoot down.

- Know you ACM's
- Know when to use and ACM's
[/I]

I learned ACM like most people -- through trial and error, through dueling, and through training courses like the old Air Warrior Training Academy. Books like Bob Shaw's may also provide a wealth of information on ACMs, though I don't consider it essential; I've never read Shaw, but others who have do extremely well. The journey here is less important than the destination, because at some point you're going to know an enormous number of ACMs for just about any situation, but you have to commit to learning them and envisioning them in your head and in the game. Over the years, I've found it enormously useful to turn the film recorder on, fly a sortie, and then go back and see what the other guy saw of me flying. That way I know what a maneuver at my end looked like at the other end, and I could learn how effectively it worked, where it might have been countered, and whether to use it again in that situation.

I find air combat in this game like a complex game of rock/paper/scissors. For every move there is a countermove. For every countermove, there is a counter-countermove. No one ACM wins every fight, and predictability is the key to defeat.

- Know your Plane
- Know your NME
[/I]

Learning the strengths and weaknesses of the planes from websites like Netaces helps a lot. However, nothing beats flying a wide variety of planes to learn their strengths and weaknesses. And while I prefer to specialize in one plane at a time, I'm always familiar with the performance of other planes so I can use their weaknesses against them. A Zeke can easily outturn a Spit V, for example, but it becomes a brick past 300mph. Thus the Spit V's best bet against a higher Zeke is to dive, force it to become a flyiing 300+mph brick, and then reverse while the Zeke lacks maneuverability. In that example, I understand that the Zeke does not handle well when fast, and I also understand that the Spit V handles better than the Zeke when fast. These two facts combine to provide an appropriate response to a higher Zeke threat.

And as before, this is a matter of practice. You cannot know every plane immediately. You cannot know your own plane immediately. You must do it through trial and error, through dueling, through determination and possessing a desire to learn it.

On a related note, I also find it useful to learn the strengths and weaknesses of individuals as well as planes. If I know that Morpheus or Drex or ManeTMP or whomever flies a certain way, prefers a certain merge, rolls a certain direction, turns a certain way, or whatever in any given situation, that gives me a competitive advantage. If I know they're going to pull out a rock every time, then I can always pull out some paper.

Did you
- Watch films of your fights
- Practice with squadies
- Trial and error
[/I]

All of the above... constantly. Even in Air Warrior I was a voracious film watcher. I studied not just how I flew, but also how my opponents flew. What move beat me? In what plane? And who was it? I always found these sorts of things useful.

I cannot overstate the importance of a dueling partner. I've been blessed with two exceptional dueling partners over the years -- +JASE in Air Warrior and NathBDP in Aces High -- who were quick learners, amazing sticks, and innovative players. They were never predictable, and they forced me to make quick decisions to counter unexpected moves. More importantly, these players were both of equal skill to me, so the duels were challenging and the results never clear. We experimented with new moves together, learned things together, won many, lost many, and never worried about ego or records. It was about the fight and the fun. Thus while many may think that dueling an exceptional pilot will make them better, I say instead that dueling someone who is of roughly equal skill yields better dividends by reducing frustration, increasing enjoyment, and rewarding innovation.

Trial and error, of course, is always an essential path to flying better. I die just about every flight, and I learn something new just about every flight. That's the kind of thing that keeps me going without burning out.

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded response. I hope Mussie, Goth, and gollum find this information useful. Enjoy!

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Alky

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
How does he do that?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 11:51:42 AM »
Excellent post!  :aok
George "AlkyŽ" Fisher

Offline Messiah

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
      • http://www.theblueknights.com
How does he do that?
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2006, 02:59:44 AM »
I KAN BETE THE OFLINE PLANE SOMTIMWS
Messiah(The O.G.)
The Blue Knights

Offline Nomak

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1214
How does he do that?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2006, 04:08:19 PM »
Nicely done Todd.  A very well thought out and well presented post.  Some very good info there.

The only thing I would add is that dueling a "Better" pilot can be helpfull if the "better" pilot is taking the time to help the "Lesser" pilot.

Thx.... Dave

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
How does he do that?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2006, 08:46:31 AM »
I agree, Dave, in the sense that training with an experienced pilot can provide a wealth of information about new ACMs and ways of thinking about the game.  I do believe that dueling someone of equal skill refines those skills however.

So think of training with an expert as mining the raw iron ore, and dueling with a dueling buddy as smelting it into iron bars.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline pellik

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 500
How does he do that?
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2006, 06:32:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I agree, Dave, in the sense that training with an experienced pilot can provide a wealth of information about new ACMs and ways of thinking about the game.  I do believe that dueling someone of equal skill refines those skills however.

So think of training with an expert as mining the raw iron ore, and dueling with a dueling buddy as smelting it into iron bars.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Pff, you can mine for iron all day. I like the gems. Gems are mined in furballs.

Offline Simaril

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
How does he do that?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2006, 08:08:02 AM »
Nomak...you back to AH, or just semi-lurking?

I've finally adjusted to stall limiter off, wish you were around to give my next lesson!


And

Pellik

I think I've got the rolling scissors in my head now. I'm finding that while I can visualize static 3D processes pretty well, I've very poor at wrapping my head around dynamic and fluid ones. Thanks for your patience that day back when -- you entered expecting to show someone the finer points of the 38, and found you had an Old Man Newbie on your hands!
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline Nomak

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1214
How does he do that?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2006, 05:00:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Simaril
Nomak...you back to AH, or just semi-lurking?

 


Nope, sorry.  Been Playing F4AF and most recently have been playing LOMAC.

Of all the boards I read..... this one has always been the most entertaining.  Will probably always read it (Shrug)

Dave

Offline Simaril

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5149
Re: How does he do that?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2006, 01:56:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
....snip.....

Over the years, I've found it enormously useful to turn the film recorder on, fly a sortie, and then go back and see what the other guy saw of me flying. That way I know what a maneuver at my end looked like at the other end, and I could learn how effectively it worked, where it might have been countered, and whether to use it again in that situation.

...snip....

-- Todd/Leviathn


Lev,
this idea has been rattling around my head for a week. It's something I never thought of doing before, and never heard anyone talk about before -- but I can see that it will be enormously useful. I guess I'm punting this (no that's not allowed... I'm...uh... responding after a long delay....yeah, thats it!) as well as thanking you for this great concept.

Simaril
Maturity is knowing that I've been an idiot in the past.
Wisdom is realizing I will be an idiot in the future.
Common sense is trying to not be an idiot right now

"Social Fads are for sheeple." - Meatwad

Offline Sled

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3595
      • Friday Squad Operations
How does he do that?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2006, 05:00:53 PM »
Good post Levi, the kind of "help" most players need.


~Sled~                 Aces High Special Events
USMC/71sqn
      XO               What Aces High is really all about.

Offline B@tfinkV

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5751
How does he do that?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2006, 05:41:51 PM »
one thing not mentioned here in this very helpfull post is that your joystick can make the difference for gunnery.



always try to remember that some folk here have spent $100s maybe even $1000s on equipment, and others have a $30 saitek stick.



If you find that despite your best efforts your gunnery and ACMs cannot improve past a certain point, and this makes you believe that you simply wont ever be good enough, then do not fear.


an upgrade to equipment can make a huge difference.


for instance i recently upgraded my 17"LCD monitor for an old analog 21" inch monster.

i can promise you its made 500% improvement  for my flying and shooting, simply because i can see alot more clearly.


good post DMF, thanks.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline wetrat

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2117
How does he do that?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2006, 07:34:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
one thing not mentioned here in this very helpfull post is that your joystick can make the difference for gunnery.



always try to remember that some folk here have spent $100s maybe even $1000s on equipment, and others have a $30 saitek stick.



If you find that despite your best efforts your gunnery and ACMs cannot improve past a certain point, and this makes you believe that you simply wont ever be good enough, then do not fear.


an upgrade to equipment can make a huge difference.


for instance i recently upgraded my 17"LCD monitor for an old analog 21" inch monster.

i can promise you its made 500% improvement  for my flying and shooting, simply because i can see alot more clearly.


good post DMF, thanks.
I use a Topgun Afterburner stick/throttle... $60 twisty stick, and my gunnery is near the top end of the food chain. Gunnery is judging speeds/angles/practice/other intangibles 'n such. Mostly practice, the amount of practice dependant on natural ability.
Army of Muppets

Offline B@tfinkV

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5751
How does he do that?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2006, 09:20:53 PM »
fair enough wetrat, but i used to use the MS sidewinder, and shoot like billy the kid, now with my saitek, i find its alot tougher to keep a steady rudder-wrist than before.


having used both a top quality twisty and a bog standard one, i can promise you it makes  a difference.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Gianlupo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5154
How does he do that?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2006, 03:02:03 AM »
Honestly I don't know if sticks can really do difference in aiming... I think that your problem, Batfink, are mostly due to adaptation to the new stick. Anyway, I'll tell you soon, I'm migrating from Wetrat's stick to a Saitek X 52.

On the other hand, what I've always wondered is how much screen resolution can influence aiming... I'm playing on a 17''LCD monitor set at 1280x1024... maybe it's too much for my poor short sighted eyes.... :p

Leviathn, thanks for this post, it should be stickified. :)
Live to fly, fly to live!

Offline Schatzi

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5729
      • http://www.slowcat.de
How does he do that?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2006, 03:31:17 AM »
I think screen res, FPS, vid detail, sound card(!!), stick etc ALL play into shooting abilities.

But also eyesight, the ability to think 3-D and ahead in a fight, reaction times etc from the pilot.


And practice.

And the plane you fly. In Hurr1 with only 303s for 2 tours my hit% went up to over 10%, now with flying all sorts of different planes/guns, im back to my mediocre 5%. So i guess switching planes/gun types also has an impact.
21 is only half the truth.