Author Topic: The boer war...  (Read 1783 times)

Offline Toad

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The boer war...
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2006, 09:51:44 AM »
They had plenty of ammo at Isandlwana and the boxes were easily opened.

 Read all about it!

Quote
access to the rounds was via a sliding wooden panel in the centre of the box. This was held in place by just one screw, and in an emergency it could be opened by the highly unorthadox method of giving the edge of the panel a hefty clout. This had the effect of splintering the wood around the screw.
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Offline lazs2

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The boer war...
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2006, 09:55:13 AM »
The Boer had maxim guns just like the brits and... just like the brits, had no idea of what to do with em.

The Boer had the better weapons.  they had crup guns and 37mm pom pom... the brits still had muzzle loading cannon.   the Boer also had the excelent 7 x 57 Mauser while most brits had the horrible lee metford rifle.

The brits had millions of rounds of "dum dum" (HP/SP) ammo and used it... the Boer who used mausers used full jacket ammo but some farmers used soft point ammo because they had hunting rifles.

The brits tried to fight the boer with "lord" this and "lord" that and the same tactics used against spear chuckers and 17th century euros.

The Boer hit and run and were some of the best guerrilla fighters on the planet.  

The brits exploited the Boer love of family by rounding up the Boer women and children and putting em into concentration camps to starve and die of disease and the elements.

The Boer had hoped to hold off the brits long enough to get germany or even America involved on their side... They allmost made it... that is what "breaker morant" is all about.   They allmost made it... farmers with mausers held off "the worlds greatest army" for 3 years.... the brits threw everything they had at em.

As for the zulu... the brits used the martini henry in .577 it was a sturdy, short range black powder weapon of mediocre accuracy.  It was also a single shot and took time to load.  That is probly what happened... between the smoke and the low fire rate... a determined spear carrying army of superior numbers could easily over run em.

Offline J_A_B

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The boer war...
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2006, 01:17:16 PM »
"The Boer had hoped to hold off the brits long enough to get germany or even America involved on their side... They allmost made it... that is what "breaker morant" is all about. They allmost made it... farmers with mausers held off "the worlds greatest army" for 3 years.... the brits threw everything they had at em."

That's the problem--they still lost, and at the end had only scorched earth and dead families to show for it.  It's unwise to start a war you can't win on your own, under the hope that someone else will get involved on your behalf.  It didn't work for the Confederates, either.




J_A_B

Offline StSanta

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The boer war...
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2006, 03:02:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2

As for the zulu... the brits used the martini henry in .577 it was a sturdy, short range black powder weapon of mediocre accuracy.  It was also a single shot and took time to load.  That is probly what happened... between the smoke and the low fire rate... a determined spear carrying army of superior numbers could easily over run em.


Saw a documentary where they tested a theory of weapon jamming caused by the heating of the barrel after repeated shots.

Sure enough, it could be replicated. Theweapon would jam and we very hard to unjam. The brass casings also were soft and could jam up a weapon if the casing was a little bent out of shape Can't remember the show or the amount of rounds fired. was interesting though.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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The boer war...
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2006, 05:17:45 PM »
Lazs, would you mind sharing where your info on the British Martini-Henry used in the Zulu wars comes from?  According to my info, Martini-Henry MkI and MkII (which are most likely what they would have been using in the 1870's - 1880's) were a .450 caliber rifle.  There was also a carbine version, which used different (lighter) rounds, but still same caliber.  In a pinch you could use either bullet in either gun, the one designed for the infantry rifle was just a bit stout in the carbine length gun (lots of recoil).

Problems with the early Martini-Henry were more based on the ammo available, not the gun itself.  The original cartridge cases were made of a thin sheet of brass rolled around a mandrel, which was then soldered to an iron base. These cartridges were assembled by the orphaned children of British Soldiers, and were relatively cheap to produce. They were found to be vulnerable to being easily damaged, and produced inferior muzzle velocities. Later, the rolled brass case was replaced by a solid brass version which remedied both of these problems.  The infantry rifle fired a .450 caliber, 480 grain bullet with 85 grains of black powder.  The cavalry carbine fired a 410 grain bullet with 70 grains of black powder, making it very similar to the more well known .45-70, with similar ballistics.  The Martini-Henry would not have (IMO) had the same effective range as say a Sharps or Springfield .45-70 because of differences in the lands and grooves, but thats just my opinion.  I dont have any long range data on the Martini-Henry to back that up.

Offline BUG_EAF322

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The boer war...
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2006, 05:38:07 PM »
Guys  Boer means farmer
south african language looks very similar to the dutch.

Offline Pei

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The boer war...
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2006, 06:23:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
The Boer had maxim guns just like the brits and... just like the brits, had no idea of what to do with em.

The Boer had the better weapons.  they had crup guns and 37mm pom pom... the brits still had muzzle loading cannon.   the Boer also had the excelent 7 x 57 Mauser while most brits had the horrible lee metford rifle.

The brits had millions of rounds of "dum dum" (HP/SP) ammo and used it... the Boer who used mausers used full jacket ammo but some farmers used soft point ammo because they had hunting rifles.

The brits tried to fight the boer with "lord" this and "lord" that and the same tactics used against spear chuckers and 17th century euros.

The Boer hit and run and were some of the best guerrilla fighters on the planet.  

The brits exploited the Boer love of family by rounding up the Boer women and children and putting em into concentration camps to starve and die of disease and the elements.

The Boer had hoped to hold off the brits long enough to get germany or even America involved on their side... They allmost made it... that is what "breaker morant" is all about.   They allmost made it... farmers with mausers held off "the worlds greatest army" for 3 years.... the brits threw everything they had at em.

As for the zulu... the brits used the martini henry in .577 it was a sturdy, short range black powder weapon of mediocre accuracy.  It was also a single shot and took time to load.  That is probly what happened... between the smoke and the low fire rate... a determined spear carrying army of superior numbers could easily over run em.


So it's just another example of what a bunch of men armed with the latest and best in modern weaponry can do when the chips are down?

Offline Curval

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The boer war...
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2006, 06:44:23 PM »
lol

This thread could very well go in all sorts of directions.  

I see it as a cleverly disguised troll to have a snipe at the British.  

I also can see exactly why lazs is so entralled by the Boers...or as they are now known, Afrikaners.  Your kinda folks lazs.

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Offline Thrawn

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The boer war...
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2006, 07:06:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
or as they are now known, Afrikaners.



I thought that was spelt "Aafraakaaaeners".

Offline Vulcan

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The boer war...
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2006, 07:07:39 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I also can see exactly why lazs is so entralled by the Boers...or as they are now known, Afrikaners.  Your kinda folks lazs.


Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeow!

I suspect lazs hasn't met many true Afrikaners curval.

Offline -tronski-

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The boer war...
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2006, 02:01:25 AM »
The Boers were good, but the Australian Mounted infantry were better...

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Offline beet1e

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The boer war...
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2006, 03:13:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
I also can see exactly why lazs is so entralled by the Boers...or as they are now known, Afrikaners.  Your kinda folks lazs.
LOL! Hard to know whether Lazs would be a natural Boer, or one of the white supremacists like Eugene Terreblanche! :lol I think the aptly named Terreblanche would earn the label "neocon" if he lived in the USA. For the benefit of our monolingual American friends, "Terreblanche" means "White Land" in French. Some of ET's cronies set up a whites only town in South Africa. I'm sure they had lots of guns. Anyway, Terreblanche was due to appear in court for the attempted murder of a black employee. I don't know how that went, but I do remember the Louis Theroux interview with Terreblanche. ET liked to drink, and LT got him drunk. Once ET was completely legless, LT turned up the wick and asked ever more hard hitting questions. ET was incensed, and tried to punch LT, but was so drunk he could barely stand up. At one point he was following LT around the room on his hands and knees. Funniest Theroux interview I ever saw. :lol

But naaah, Lazs isn't like ET. At least Lazs has a heart, some of which is his own. ;) Terreblanche is a complete arse IMO.

Offline Vulcan

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The boer war...
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2006, 03:24:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -tronski-
The Boers were good, but the Australian Mounted infantry were better...

 Tronsky


Meh. The NZ Maori Battalion could beat all the Aussies, Boers AND Zulu's with 1 arm tied behind their backs by lunch time (and have em all cooked up in a hangi for lunch... the germans in WW1 and WW2 thought the maori boys were still cannibals).

Offline -tronski-

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The boer war...
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2006, 05:37:21 AM »
Thats because the germans didn't have a decent rugby team...

I personally would never have a go at Kiwi solders, especially a battalion of Jake the Muss's however I don't think the maori battalion was in action during the boer war...I think they were still in Sth Auckland drinking Waikato or Lion Red flagons eh bro :aok

...either way, our Dominion troops (including your lot of sheep farmers) ate Lazs dutch superman for breakfast!

 Tronsky
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 05:39:40 AM by -tronski- »
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storch

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The boer war...
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2006, 07:51:35 AM »
I will say this,  a few years back a couple of aussie fencers showed up at my shop looking for work.  they were travelling across the US and wanted to work their way across the continent.  they needed to paid in cash.  they were personable guys so I hired them on.  The one guy who's name was menzies IIRC asked me " 'ow much fince does a yank crew instoll in a wake" (how much fence does an American crew install in a week)  I told him the amount.  set him up in a truck/tools with a map and explanations on how to reach his destination etc.  by wednesday they had completed the week's work collected their pay and were out partying on the South Beach scene.  The following monday they were back with the same results.  this continued on until they tired of the SB partying and decided to move on.  the last two weeks they worked all six days and did better than double the usual amount of work.  I was impressed with their work ethic and their honesty.  good guys that left us here with a very good impression of our cousins down under.