Rolling plane set

[Grits]

The one large benefit of using all theaters in an Axis vs Allied RPS is with the Japanese planes, the Axis will always have a decent TnB counter to the Spits of a particular time period. The Zeke's/109's/190s combo will give the Allies some serious difficulty, much more so than PTO or ETO planes alone.

[Jester]

Excelent Plan Sable! !

While I also agree it is a little heavy on Spitfires, that is pretty much the way it was historically.

I also have issue with dropping the 190A5. At that time Germany was putting everything in the air they could lay their hands on.

I would also like to see your plan for a PTO and a Two-Week ETO based on the plan above.

Do we still have the Large ETO map? Would have to have it IMHO to put this plan into operation.

Again, Well Done Sable!  

[Soulyss]

What would people think of a theater swtich +1 "year" ?
for example you would start with BoB (ETO, '40) then move to 41-42 PTO (guadalcanal type planeset)  then back to ETO but now moving into a 42/43 time frame (spit vb, 47D11, 38G, etc. vs A5, F4, G2, etc.) then back and add.  

My worry would be 2 weeks of any setup, even if there's an evolving planeset may start to grow old.  Also I think that breaking down each theater into 3 time frames may be more simple than trying to follow a year to year strategy.  The idea being a plane that entered service in december 1943 being included in a "1943" and uncalancing things.  A 42/43 or "mid war" would allow the staff some flexibility.  ALso they could choose to limited some rides thus one week we could have a RAF focused 43 ETO setup next time around it could be USAAF vs LW.

Any thoughts?  It's the end of the day here @ the office and I'm not even sure I'm making any sense here.

Edit also if we shift focus we could see some interesting setups like SpitVIII's vs the IJN.   It was my understanding that the VIII almost universally went to the pacific theater?

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Grits
The one large benefit of using all theaters in an Axis vs Allied RPS is with the Japanese planes, the Axis will always have a decent TnB counter to the Spits of a particular time period. The Zeke's/109's/190s combo will give the Allies some serious difficulty, much more so than PTO or ETO planes alone.

While I agree that all of the time periods would be better balanced this way, the drawback is that it almost completely eliminates the historical aspect of the rolling plane set.  Which is a big part of the reason for doing it, yes?

And mil gracias to Sable, a lot of effort went into that.

- oldman

[Sable]

My reasoning for dropping the 190A5 was that it was completely replaced by the A8 at that point in the OOB sheets I was looking at - they just ran out of them and the factories were making A8s by then.  But I can't imagine it would be a huge deal to keep them on.  All the rest of the dates were based on when units were flying that aircraft in action in theater - thus the reason for dropping older planes.

With regards to PTO, would people prefer to seperate it from the CBI, or roll them both together?  (I believe we end up seeing the P-51s and Ki84 earlier if we include the CBI)

[Jester]

Originally posted by Sable

With regards to PTO, would people prefer to seperate it from the CBI, or roll them both together?  (I believe we end up seeing the P-51s and Ki84 earlier if we include the CBI)

I think that is going to be dependent on the scale of the map we have. Do we have a PTO map (That includes the CBI) of a size as the large ETO map we used to fly on in AHI?

Another thing will have to be factored in if we use the CBI - many older planes went on flying there - P-40 for example - than they did in the rest of the PTO. We are missing a main player for the CBI in the Japanese OSCAR - but that could probabily be subbed by the A6M2 ZERO.

[Sundiver]

I'm wondering what the response is from our Northern European friends seeing the FM2's and Yaks left out of the setup entirely?

[Sable]

Ok, well if we stick to just the PTO (phillipines, new guinea, solomons, carrier battles/raids, phillipines, okinawa, home islands) I'm thinking something like this.  Dec 1941 to Aug 1945 gives us about 3 months per day for a 14 day RPS.  

Once again, we could do a map change towards the end from Solomons to Okinawa.  Weather should probably alternate between lots of puffy clouds but no ceilings, and clear.

Day 1: Dec/Jan/Feb 1942

Allies

P-40B
P-40E
B-17 (due to the armament difference between our G, the D/Es in use, it might be a good idea to disable formations early on)
F4F
SBD
TBD (subbed with the TBM)

Axis

A6M2
B5N
D3A
G3M/G4M (subbed by Ju88 - the bombload is too high, but the other options are just too fast - more reason to disable formations at this point)

Day 2: March/April/May 1942

Allies - add B-25 (sub B-26)

Axis - unchanged

Day 3: June/July/Aug 1942

Allies - add A-20 (rear fields only, as it can outrun the A6M)
remove P-40B

Axis - unchanged

Day 4: Sep/Oct/Nov 1942

Allies - add P-38G (rear fields only)

Axis - unchanged

Day 6: March/April/May 1943

Allies - add F4U-1 (rear fields only, not available on carriers)
add B-24J (bomber formations can probably be enabled at this point as the IJAAF now has something that can intercept the A-20)
P-38G now available at all fields

Axis - add Ki61


Day 7: June/July/Aug 1943

Allies - add P-47D11

Axis - add A6M5

Day 8: Sept/Oct/Nov 1943

Allies - add F6F
F4U-1 now available at all fields, and carriers

Axis - unchanged

Day 9: Dec/Jan/Feb/March 1944

Allies - add P-38J

Axis - unchanged

Day 10: April/May/June 1944

Allies - add F4U-1D
add FM2 (carriers only)
remove F4F

Axis - add Ki-67
remove Ju88

Day 11: July/Aug/Sept/Oct 1944

Allies - Add P-38L
Add P-47D25
remove P-38G

Axis - add Ki84

Day 12: Nov/Dec/Jan 1944

Allies - unchanged

Axis - add N1K2

Day 13: Feb/Mar/April 1945

Allies - add P-47N (rear fields only)
add P-51D (rear fields only)
add F4U-1C (rear fields only)
add F4U-4 (rear fields only)
remove P-47D11 and D25
P-40 and P-38s now available at rear fields only (they didn't see much action at the end)

Axis - unchanged

Day 14: May/June/July/Aug 1945

unchanged

The downside I see to this is that Japan has to go so long between fighter upgrades, but at least they kind of keep pace with the Allies.  The A6M2 has been retained throughout to cover as the Oscar.

[Sable]

Originally posted by Sundiver
I'm wondering what the response is from our Northern European friends seeing the FM2's and Yaks left out of the setup entirely?

I was thinking it might be neat to put together a shorter (because of the very limited planset) Russian front setup (and maybe a seperate short Med setup as well) to slot between the ETO and PTO.

So maybe 2 weeks ETO, a week Ostfront, 2 weeks PTO, a week Med or something along those lines.

[Jester]

Originally posted by Sundiver
I'm wondering what the response is from our Northern European friends seeing the FM2's and Yaks left out of the setup entirely?

Homer Simpson "DOH!"  

NOTES ON 14 day PTO:
DAY 1:
The Boston might be a better sub for the G3M/G4M than the JU88 except for the speed and inability to carry Torps. Just give the Allies A-20's from the start.

DAY 5: go ahead and give the Japanese the A6M5 ZEKE as the A6M3. They have a heavy Allied plane-set staring them down already, won't hurt to give them a little slack.

DAY 8:
The Hellcat was in service on CV's long before the Corsair was. Might wan't to not enable it on the CV's till the time you have out for F4U-1D. Was the F4U-1 even flown off CV's?

P-51B's were flown in the CBI in early 1944(?) but if we are staying to Western Pacific it won't be an issue.

Looks good Sable - good work. Don't mean to "Nit-Pick" too much - just putting my opinions in from flying both sides of the fence. Big thing here is it is going to translate out to MUCH work for the CT Staff.

!  

[Grits]

Originally posted by Oldman731
While I agree that all of the time periods would be better balanced this way, the drawback is that it almost completely eliminates the historical aspect of the rolling plane set.  Which is a big part of the reason for doing it, yes?

Yes, this is a good point too.

How about combine an RPS with Bug's "squad highlight" idea and Sables "day in the sun" idea. As part of the RPS, when the time period or location is right do a day or two of the RPS as a "JG54 Eastern Front" focus with the planes that squad flew and flew against, as much as we can with the plane types we have. Next couple of days, if it is the right time or location do some other squad, maybe try to get some of the P-38 squads from the MA for a PTO day or two focusing on the 38 in the Solomans/New Guinea. Or try to entice the 56th FG with an ETO day or two highlighting them and the P-47. You could easily do all of this as part of an RPS evolution and add some historical flavor to it.

[Yeager]

be careful not to get too complicated with RPS implimentation.

I only worry that a month in a single theater is a bit long on the tooth but Im game.

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Yeager
be careful not to get too complicated with RPS implimentation.

I only worry that a month in a single theater is a bit long on the tooth but Im game.

Agreed. Two week RPS is perfect, otherwise it's too drawn out.  One reason people wanted a RPS was because so often so many planes are never used. The one month RPS is going to be basically what we have had. Mainly Spitfires, and 109s , then after more than two weeks............. Here have some more spitfires, and 109s, and maybe a P-47, or P-38.

[storch]

I agree.  two weeks is about all I would spend in the PTO portion of the set up.  I like the idea though.  will you be implementing it soon?

[Sable]

Ok, here's the same ETO stuff but in a two week format.

Day 1: June/July/Aug/Sep 1940

Allies

Hurricane Mk I
Spitfire Mk I
*Blenheim (TBM3 - it can be used as a level bomber, and has a similar speed and only a slightly increased bomb load and defensive armament)

Axis

Bf109E
Bf110C
Ju87
Ju88


Day 3: Feb/Mar/April/May 1941

Allies - add Spit Vb
add Hurricane IIC
add Boston III
remove Blenheim/TBM

Axis - add Bf109F
Remove Bf110C (all zerstorer units had departed for other fronts)
Remove Ju87


Day 4: June/July/Aug/Sep 1941

Allies - remove Hurricane I


Axis - remove Bf109E


Day 5: Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan 1942

Allies - remove Spit I

Axis - add Fw190A5

Day 6: Feb/Mar/April/May 1942

Allies - unchanged

Axis - Bf109F available at rear fields only (being phased out in favor of the 190)

Day 7: June/July/Aug/Sept 1942

Allies - add Spit IX (rear bases only)
add B-17 (rear bases only)
remove Hurri IIC

Axis - add Bf109G2 (rear fields only - only used to re-equip a few units at first)
remove Bf109F

Day 8: Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan 1943

Allies - Spit IX now available at all bases
B-17 now available at all bases
add B-24

Axis - unchanged

Day 9: Feb/Mar/Aprl/May 1943

Allies - add Spit VIII (rear fields only)
add P-47D11 (rear fields only)
add B-26 (rear fields only)

Axis - add Bf109G6
Bf109G2 now available at all bases

Day 10: June/July/Aug/Sept 1943

Allies - add Typhoon (I kinda have a problem with this one, as our Typhoon vastly outperforms every other fighter at lower alts during this time period - maybe limit it to rear fields only)
P-47D now available at all fields

Axis - add Bf110G (rear fields only - was used in limited numbers as a bomber destroyer over germany - not as a jabo attacking england)

Day 11: Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan 1944

Allies - add P-38G (rear fields only)
add P-38J (rear fields only)
add P-51B (rear fields only)
Spit VIII now available at all fields
B26 now available at all fields
remove Spit V

Axis - remove Bf109G2

Day 12: Feb/Mar/Apr/May 1944

Allies - remove P-38G
add P-47D25 (rear fields only)
add P-51D (rear fields only)
add Spit XIV (rear fields only)
P-38J now available at all fields
P-51B now available at all fields

Axis - add Fw190A8

Day 13: June/July/Aug/Sep 1944

Allies - add P-38L
add Spit XVI
P-47D25 now available at all fields
P-51D now available at all fields
Typhoon now available at all fields, if it was limited previously
add Tempest V (rear fields only)

Axis - add Bf109G14
add Me163 (HQ field only)

Day 14: Oct/Nov/Dec/Jan 1945

Allies - Spit XIV now available at all fields
Tempest V now available at all fields
add P-47D40
add P-47N (rear fields only - sub for 47M)

Axis - add Bf109K
add Fw190D
add Me262 (HQ field only)
remove Fw190A5
add Ta152H (HQ field only - extremely rare, subject to same level of restriction as the jets)
add Ar234 (HQ field only)


Latewar winds up getting cut off somewhat, but given how much of that people get in the MA, I don't think it's a huge problem.