Another Pile of China Crap!

[Eagler]

The five year old goes to the same Washington DC preschool as my sisters triplets. The women is a US resident.
 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010724/ts/china_sentence_dc_6.html

Here is a picture of the "spy"

 

I think the timing stinks of another China bid for US negotations - read $$$ payment to get this mother reunited with her family. Freakin chinese leadership are just a bunch of paraniod, power hungry, confused old man who should be lined up and shot with the same bullet. Maybe then the bellybutton backwards, cheating country would get with the 21st century!

[-dead-]

Here's another Chinese Spy accused by a paranoid, militaristic government with a very dodgy set of facts  

News Link

[Eagler]

don't think this woman downloaded any nuclear secrets as Mr Lee did placing them on an unsecure server for his commie buddies to browse through.
One is guilty, the other is a political pawn.

[Fury]

Yea, but China will get it's act together by 2008 right?

[fd ski]

The women is a US resident.

As a US Resident and now even a citizen, it has been made clear to me that if my home country has any beef with me, i would not be able to run for embassy like any amiercan boen citizen could.

There are citizenships you cannot shed - aka - i cannot give up my Polish citizenship even if i wanted to.
Despite of what some could think, US citizenship is not superior and overwritting to all others, therefore if you have chineese citizenship and reasons to suspect that they might not like you - DON'T GO THERE

If Poland was in some sort of pissing contest with USA, i would think twice about going back for a visit. Why ? Cause in that case you are a TRAITOR !!! Turn the situation around and you'll see what i mean.

The charges against that woman are prabably roadkill just to yank the US chain, but that fact remains that it was very stupid of her to go there.

[-dead-]

Well Wen Ho Lee is guilty, only if you believe the US legal system (and a law enforcement agency that can't even keep track of it's own guns and laptops). And with that sort of blind unquestioning faith, you might as well say that Gao Zhan is guilty too...

The cases seem kinda similar - Both had trials in their own country, with irregular procedures and scanty evidence, both were found guilty. Both goverments are run by twitchy, paranoid cases, who are actively against any different systems of government than their own, and both goverments are so afraid of their own people that they had their armies shoot at and kill domestic student demonstrators in the last half of the twentieth century, and shroud large amounts of their government in secrecy on the grounds of "national security"... Although only one had their secret agents experiment on another country's mental patients with banned hard drugs (to the best of my knowledge - do enlighten me if the PRC ever stooped that low   )

I'm not saying either case is right or wrong - I was just trying to get you to question everything both countries do and say - I think the governments of China and the US are equally evil, and equally paranoid - all super powers are, (it appears to come with the territory) and both have their endearing good points, too (they both passionately believe that they are trying to do the best for the world - ahh where's that road go that's paved with good intentions?).

And yes, Fury, everything will be smelling sweet and filled with Apple-pie-friendly loviness for the entire duration of the Olympic Games <passes Fury a pair of Official 2008(R) Rose-tinted(TM) Ray Bann Copy (Ahem) Shades - hand made by re-educated academics   >

[Eagler]

dead said:
"I think the governments of China and the US are equally evil"

is that short for dead head??? You truly cannot believe that, have you lived in America or just your view form HK? Can't recall the last time our gov has forced the second baby in a family to be murdered and call it birth control, nor the last time tanks crushed a demonstration or the last time the gov dictated to me want I can or can't do for a living..
that must be some good toejame ur smoking over there bud as you don't have a clue about us over here..

[-dead-]

Awww I knew the old one child policy would rear it's ugly head sooner or later - Oh that's so evil! I suppose you'd prefer them to have 8 kids per family, and have them all starve to death instead - much more humane.
BTW they don't kill the second kid, you just get taxed to hell and back, lose all benefits etc. - it makes it economically unsound. Although in rural areas, and for the 56 ethic minorities 2 kids is the usual allowed minimum - it depends from province to province though.

As to the US murdering they're own students - Kent State University (1964 I think) ring any bells?

And nope, I haven't been to the US - have you been to China? I've seen a ton of US movies and TV though (there's no escaping it!).

Can't recall the last time your government dictated want you can or can't do for a living: try 1965-1975 The Draft. (actually not too sure of the dates)

And I get the idea that the US government is evil from world events (via CNN, BBC) for the most part, although a read of Cold War History can help. Try looking up Salvador Allende (democratically elected by the Chilean people and rather less democratically assassinated by the CIA) and Chile sometime, then look up General Pinochet (who was the US govt's good guy in Chile)

I don't know - mebbe you should start questioning this China is the new evil empire, because Russia isn't communist anymore line that your being fed. It seems overly paranoid and reminiscent of Joe McCarthy era stuff (Oh hey does era ever give the impression the US government is evil...)

[10Bears]

Hey Eagler
   The article doesn’t say she’s not guilty She’s a U.S. -based Chinese scholar caught gathering intelligence for Taiwan. The husband says its political not legal but doesn’t offer any explanations why that would be.

10 years is a pretty light sentence for spying even in the U.S.

 Using your logic we should release that Israeli spy Pollard.

Hey what's up with all the China bashing lately? The two things Nixon did right, Opening the doors to China and the ABM treaty seem to both be trashed by today’s conservatives. Could it be that they are looking for an enemy to justify spending hundreds of billions of dollars for missile defense?

As far as you asking Dead what he is smoking, What you been smoking not to know about Kent state in 1971 or the Veteran riots of 1930 or the draft riots of 1863 and again in the 1960s?
 You are aware China has over a billion people and that something HAD to be done to curb population growth.

[Eagler]

yeah I know about Kent State - yep that compares to China. Sorry my mistake..we are identical.  

dead just has a warped view of the states if he thinks we are the same as China. I'm sure my view of his China is slanted (no pun intended) but I know an assbackwards country when I see one. A fellow programmer is Chinese. Very nice person, just went back to China last Nov to visit her mother. Just strange how she/they just except what the gov there crams down their throat as normal. Just read were they are cutting off internet access in the university for fear of what the students may gather and learn from the net. Yep, identical to the states...

[Hangtime]

<hoists the American flag and salutes>

Yup, we're guilty.. guilty as sin of impressing, enslaving and murdering peoples that don't look like us; speak our brand of the language or have the cash to defend themselves. We've been doing it non-stop for over two hundred years and we are getting ready to slap OUR version of domestic tranquilty upon the rest of the planet BY FORCE IF NECESSARY. We know who you are, what you think, we know of your feeble and puny plots against us, and we await our chance to come to YOUR lands and evilly and without mercy place a McDonalds on every corner of your dirty ugly cities.

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. You want fries and a soft drink with that??"

On a more serious note, I strongly believe that China's political dogma is out of step with the economic realities of the 21st century. Friction exists both internally and abroad as the two entirely incompatable forces wrestle with each other...

I predict either massive civil strife in Mainland China or a collapse of the political system currently in place within the next 10 years.... information is the weapon of choice for a freedom fighter in that society.... and the internet is giving Chinese citizens a window on the world that they simply never had before.

I greatly support Taiwans efforts to do what it thinks is necessary to survive APART from China.. if that involves pissing off 'red' china, then fine, let 'em stew. Lets do more buisness with Taiwan, less with Mainland China and support the continued emergence an economic and political system that is based on awareness of individual civil rights, freedom of information and freedom of religion... the Taiwanese have earned our support and economic favor. Red China has not.

Somebody (other than big buisness intrests)oughta remind the State Department of just who are friends in that Region are!

[pimpjoe]

and a big fat <S> to hang. good point

[Eagler]

YES!!

The little boy will get his mother back!!
 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010726/ts/china_scholar_dc_11.html

Dunno why this bothered me so, but glad it ended this way  

[-dead-]

Hehe well Hangtime has a point - although Taiwan's not exactly been a beacon of political freedom - Taiwan's first free elections were in 1996 - for the other 47 years it was a one-party state under martial law. Woah, freedom! I don't think.

Mind you, I also think that China & Taiwan should just accept that they are separate nation states and that neither is going to rule the other in the forseeable future.

I also think that if China were to ditch communism and the draconian centralised rule it would lead to a more than few localized bloodbaths and genocides followed by famine, disease, poverty, corruption - kinda like the USSR only with more grudges (56 different races, 5 autonomous regions, 22 provinces, 3 municpalities, 100s of dialects and different languages, almost all the major religious factions - Jews, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Taoists). Can you say tinderbox? I knew you could.
This huge melting pot of 1/5 of the world's population, (10 times as many people as the USA) still needs this central control - but it is changing, and it will change even more... and hey if you think Communist China sucks, you should research some of the traditional values and social structures it replaced - very unsavoury. Communism is not even close to perfect, but it ain't all bad either.

As to my warped view of the states, Eagler - well it isn't as warped as I make out, but I was really just asking you to think a bit before you rant. I'd also suggest that the jingoistic fervour with which you go around bashing China as the evil empire and proclaiming the USA as the land of the free is to my mind extremely reminiscent of the sort of thing you'd expect from the finest of Communist propaganda and indoctrination. If you really feel strongly that you need an new evil empire to rail against, perhaps you should chose a few closer to home: Disney, Microsoft   , or for true evil try Philip Morris

There's a lot that's wrong with China, but the same can be said of any country, including the USA - for instance I would much rather walk around Beijing alone at 2am than New York - it has got to be a few magnitudes safer - and walking around without being afraid of being attacked or killed is a fairly basic everyday human right, and certainly one that I'd value over being able to put a tick in a box every four years.

But the Chinese government does dreadful things to people who disagree with them, as does the American government, as do all governments - they all work along this fundamental principle: you, the people, do what they tell you to do, or else they will lock you up or kill you . The only details that differ from government to government is what the individual government has agreed is "bad" and what is "good".
So sell cannabis in Amsterdam, no problem. Sell it in the US, and they will lock you up. Sell it in China and they will lock you up or kill you.
Refuse to give any government money, and they will lock you up. Try to overthrow any government and they will lock you up or kill you.

PS. Strange to see that the evil empire ain't so evil after all...

[ 07-26-2001: Message edited by: -dead- ]

[Naso]

S! Dead, there's still light in the world!!

The light of an human mind at work.

Easy to listen propaganda, from both parts, you dont need to think and form an opinion.  

BTW Hang had some good points, S!.