The right to bear arms saved my life

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by eagl
Ghost,

You're that easily frightened off your land?  You'd give up a house that your family had lived in for generations, just because some bad neighbors move in and start acting like the scum that they are?  You'd abandon everything because the bad people moved in?

Keep that up and there will be no safe areas anywhere.  Good, honest, upright citizens must fight back or the criminal elements will win, every time.  The police have no ability to stop this, and they're not even supposed to try.  They exist to keep things stable, and if you voluntarily leave your home anytime you don't like your neighbors, then the police really have nothing to do since you've solved the problem by leaving.  That's how police and decent citizens abandon entire neighborhoods to the criminals.

If you don't stand up for yourself, nobody will, and you'll be a victim without a place you can call home for the rest of your life.

Agreed, well put, and absolutely correct... however if xmarine takes direct premptive action he's gonna spend the rest of his natural life in a cell with the same unsavory types that forced him to arms and action.

At the very least, I hope someone in the LA area with a similar mindset that lives near xmarine stops by for a few weeks and gives him a hand on night CQ. The mans life is at risk, he needs the help. The man should not have to stand alone.

Time to form up the mean old gents posse, boys. This situation developed on OUR watch, the malaise is of our own making. Time we took responsibilty and action. If we do not fight then we must flee.. and eventually there will no longer exist the means to resist or a place to flee too.

[mars01]

Man this whole story sucks.  

XM - I hope your situation improves for the better and those scum bags are remove for all involved.

One line of action you should take and start now is,

Document every incident and send it to all your legislators in your area, then your governor, Senators and the media.  Let them see what impact their head in the sand BS decisions are having.  Only then, after you shoot these aholes dead will you have a chance in court.  You need to leave a paper trail.

[lazs2]

furball.. I don't want to make it an england vs U.S. gun rights thread either but... beet insists.  He is comparing your lilly white socialist country to one that is very diverse.   He is also comparing a country that thinks individualism is wrong with one that is based on it... countries that on the one.... worship their government and on the other.... distrust it.  

I think that your country has a history of not learning by it's mistakes..  I think that you are as usual... just a few decades behind us... you will not be able to keep out the 3rd world... they are becoming more and more of your world every day.   More and more guns are entering your country every day and more and more of your police force is being armed every day...

soon... the police and the bad guys will be armed.... the bad guys will be english in name only... they will spit on your silly traditions and idea of fair play...  your liberals will ask you to understand these animals who play by no rules save what works for them at the moment...

and... your law abiding citizens will be the only helpless people on your little island...  It's invetable.... you can't keep em out.

You will live to regret disarming your citizens.  

I know you don't do it but a few of the lilly white socialists from your little island and kingdom get all self rightious in every gun thread even tho they have no clue at all about our 3rd world criminal class.... some of the 3rd worlders have lived here for generations.... since the country was born... they have gotten worse not better.  

keep what I said in mind as more and more of your criminals and cops are armed.

lazs

[DipStick]

The right to bear arms is an American right. beet has no rights, he is jealous of anyone who has rights. vulcan and beet are airheads. If they were on that porch they'd have gotten what they deserved (their azzs whopped).

WTG X! You did good and those of us who have lived in big cities know where you're coming from and support you. You might and probably already have set up some trip wires, tin cans, etc... to alert you to intrusions during the night.

As stupid as the gov't is about scum like this at least we still have the RTBA. I'm a NRA member for a long time. Got a 12ga. and a 9mm that nobody's taking from me.

[B@tfinkV]

Friday night, the eve of my 23rd birthday, friday the 13th amazingly......here is how it happened.




Myself and 2 close friends (both male) walk into my local boozer. its a quiet family pub in a quiet family village.

we approach the bar and one of the regular piss heads is giving me the evil eye.

"alright mate?" i offer, i know this chap, hes always proping up the bar.

"dont alright mate me, who the F*** are you?" he replies.

"er...who the F*** are you, i live here" i respond.

"no need for that attitude you little salamander, you got a problem with me?"

"look at my smile" i reply " i dont have attitude, calm down eh?"


we order our drinks, two guinness and a lager, and sit down and begin to get merry, not giving this 45 year old fool another thought.


an hour later, he approaches our table, grabs me round the throat in my seat, and proclaims...

"you ever cheek me again and i'll break your ***** neck!" spit flying out into my face.

I turn my head towards him, look him right in the eyes and say...

 "go on then, break my neck now"


*WHAM*

He punches me in the mouth, splitting my bottom lip against my teeth.

I fly up to my feet, as do my two mates, and this pathetic 'man' makes a run for the door.

"Is that all you got you coward?" i shout after him "you punch like a girl! How about we go outside and you try that again when im standing up?"

he jumps in his car (car park visible from the pub window) quite obviously too drunk to drive, and screeches off, Obviously pleased that he retains his gansta status and doesnt let a mere kid 'cheek' him.

we sit down, laugh about it (we are not strangers to the odd fist fight in bars), I spit the blood from my mouth into the empty pint glass and order another, and the pub returns to the peacefull scene it  was a minute before.





Point is, no one has weapons in this situation. All that could happen is someone gets a fist in his face.

had he been armed, he might have been drunk enough to shoot me.

Had i been armed, more drunk, and less of a decent human being i might have shot him in the bellybutton as he ran out.




having guns doesnt make you any safer, it just means that not having a gun in a society where guns are permitted makes you LESS safe. And more importantly, when the watermelon hits the fan, the conscequences are 100 times worse.


If this guy was a big 240lbs man, as you say, then dont piss him off.


just cos you have a gun you are arrogant to his obvious physical advantage, and more likely to cause trouble when simply walking away would have done the trick.



bat.

[NUKE]

well, you made a few mistakes..begining with acknowledging the guy. Second, as soon as he touched you, you should have kicked his arse....no words.

don't know what guns has to do with you being way too timid for your mouth.

[Patches1]

I've read this entire post with some interest. What I have concluded is that an individual American's life and property have been protected by his right to defend himself and his property with a legally aquired firearm.

Others have concluded that it is a sad state of affairs where a citizen of a country has to defend ones' self with a firearm of any kind.

Beet1e quoted a part of the Second Amendment in this statement:

" A roving gang of hooded druggie thuggies armed with machine guns: Is that what your forefathers had in mind when they conceived the notion of "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State"? ".

No, Beet1e, I don't think it was. I think it was a pointed message to a pair of "George's"...ie... King George and George Washington... that the American Citizens would not tolerate tyranny at home, nor abroad, and will remain armed against such tyranny. I doubt our American Forefathers forsaw serious drug problems and crime as a reason for allowing its citizenry " to keep and bear arms ".  However, the "Right to Bear Arms" legally, has protected many an innocent citizen from being victimized by the kind of thugs to which you allude.

What I find sad is that drug related crime is rampant worldwide; not just in the United States...! In my opinion, the dealing of illegal drugs is just as blatant a death knell as pointing a firearm at someone's head and pulling the trigger. Instead of attacking the Second Ammendment of the American Constitution, shouldn't we all be attacking the weak systems of Law in our respective Nations that allow these kinds of criminals to offend repeatedly, endangering not only our youth, but our futures as Nations free of illegal drugs?

[B@tfinkV]

Originally posted by NUKE
well, you made a few mistakes..begining with acknowledging the guy. Second, as soon as he touched you, you should have kicked his arse....no words.

don't know what guns has to do with you being way too timid for your mouth.

hahaha, you're as deluded as the guy himself then.


dont you see that not reacting makes me the bigger man.


Its my pub, i know him personaly (he was too drunk to remember who i was) and he ran out of the pub before i had a chance to 'kick his arse'



you sir, are the timid one, i expect you would have pulled your .45 out and defused the situation like a 'real man'.

simple fact is, he said he would break my neck, so i told him to do it right there and then. he didnt, i win.  and he did hit like a girl. Ive been hit harder by my girlfriend.


and the main pint is that had guns been involved, the problem may have become a funeral instead of a fat lip.

I saw him today in the same spot, and he brought me a pint and appologised. had i 'kicked his arse' then the problem would have only got worse.

just like when X-marine get shot in the back and dies, he will feel stupid for a few seconds as all his blood escapes him.


bah, pathetic.   end of discusion.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by B@tfinkV
hahaha, you're as deluded as the guy himself then.


dont you see that not reacting makes me the bigger man.


 

you are a fool. He could have really broken your neck, and you just sat there and allowed it to happen... even egged it on by running your mouth. Maybe you could have "I was the bigger man" etched on your tombstone.

The first thing you should have done was ignore the "look". If anyone grabs my throat, I'm taking that as a threat to my health, and possibly my life. I'm not going to try to be sure and come off as the better man, I'm going to protect myself from the obvious assault.

[wrag]

Originally posted by lazs2
BS beet and vulcan..

beets solution?  disarm everyone... the poor and the old and the young just starting out can just move away to safer neighborhoods...  simply buy a $750,000 (in kalifornia) home and move into it and take a starting wage job or pay for it on retirement fixed income.... if they can't afford it.... well... not beets problem..

vulcan you are being surprisingly hypocritical... you are having black gang and other minority gang problems in canada and they are barely getting started....  you can't deal with em now... wait till either of your lilly white socialist countries starts feeling the 3rd world boogie.  

MT is disapointingly predictable here too...  It's ok to torture animals and to threaten people and gang up on while living off the government and selling/doing drugs so long as the bad guys are colored and the good guys are white because..... can a white guy ever really be the "good guy" when there is even one "brother" suffering under such opression?

I don't care... I feel for xmarine... his life just took a turn for the worst because he refused to be a doormat.... still... he isn't dead or mutilated and that is because of his right to keep and bear arms.   How would he have been any safer vulcan if 3 of the monsters had not been able to get guns and he couldn't either?

Would he have been better off if he had to fight 3-10 gang members with his bare hands agains their bare hands?   Like that truck driver in the LA riots?

I have been in jail and disarmed and I hate to say it but against four big colored guys I really didn't do that good...  lost two teeth as a matter of fact... coulda been lots worse.

The real point is tho that xmarine will just be part of that American statistic the FBI keeps where 1.5-3 million Americans a year use a firearm to prevent a crime from happening.

The people who tortured the cat would torture any of us with just as much glee... they deserve to be imprisoned for life or killed or crippled... they are not really human at this point.... probly will never make it to human.

If I lived near you xmarine I would volunteer to help you watch your place... If more of us did we could take back our neighborhoods from these scum...

The "gangsters" around here are smaller in number and more easily intimidated..  I really feel for you.

lazs

I hear ya Laz..........

a friend of mine had a drive by at his house.  Me and another guy went to his place right away.  We were all armed and waiting.  The shooters never returned.

Probably just as well, for US that is.  This occured in Kalifornicatcia.  The state where I was born.  We probably would have gone to prison had we actually done anything.  Or found ourselves facing the same situation as JT's faced in his post.

I LEFT there because of such.  Moved to Nevada like JT's.  We KNEW the way to deal with such people once.  Seems like we knew the way for well over 1,000 years!  But I'm thinkin somewhere along in our recent past we lost it?  Thinkin we need more laws like they're now creating in FL.......................

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato

"The generality of men are naturally apt to be swayed by fear rather than reverence, and to refrain from evil rather because of the punishment that it brings than because of its own foulness." - Aristotle (384-322 bc) Greek philosopher

"The defense of one's self, justly called the primary law of nature, is not, nor can it be abrogated by any regulation of municipal law." - James Wilson, The Works of James Wilson, 1896

"I think that the sacredness of human life is a purely municipal ideal of no validity outside the jurisdiction. I believe that force, mitigated as far as may be by good manners, is the ultimate ratio, and between two groups of men
that want to make inconsistent kinds of world I see no remedy except force . . . It seems to me that every society rests on the death of men." - Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes (1841-1935), American jurist

[Vulcan]

Originally posted by Morpheus
You will never take the guns out of the hands of criminals.

While I agree with this statement I disagree with the rest of your post. You chose the right to bear arms. We chose the right to live without fearing for lives on a daily basis.

Thats the big difference.

I can own a firearm if I want too, I just need to prove I can safely operate and store it, and that I'm not a criminal or nutjob.

Just as beetle can't get the idea that the criminals in the US can't be disarmed, you don't get that it is possible for other places to live comfortably without being armed to the teeth.

For every criticism of beetle, you should take a look in the mirror because you are his extreme opposite.

[doobs]

Now I see the point of getting rid of guns for everyone, because if guns are illegal nobody good or bad would have them:lol , I also propose going
after eastwood, rawlings, louisville slugger making bats illegal, that way the people who couldn't get a gun won't have a secondary weapon.

Ahhh wait then we would have to ban all sharp objects, hard objects,
Glass, Vehicles, chemicals, and so on.

solution; remove the opposing thumbs of human animals and keep all the other stuff.

XM keep up the fight for your rights, but watch your back

[wrag]

Originally posted by Vulcan
While I agree with this statement I disagree with the rest of your post. You chose the right to bear arms. We chose the right to live without fearing for lives on a daily basis.

Thats the big difference.

I can own a firearm if I want too, I just need to prove I can safely operate and store it, and that I'm not a criminal or nutjob.

Just as beetle can't get the idea that the criminals in the US can't be disarmed, you don't get that it is possible for other places to live comfortably without being armed to the teeth.

For every criticism of beetle, you should take a look in the mirror because you are his extreme opposite.

Actually I think there is NO difference.  Location and the current attitude of those living their perhaps, but I'm inclined to think such things can change very rapidly under difficult circumstances.

I further put forward...........did Carthage choose?

Sorry I have to disagree with the premise being put forward here.

Anyone can be armed and can so so with simple everyday household items.  Nearly anything can become a weapon.

"Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those that did not. And each meekly inherit only an earthin plot............"

Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est. (A sword is never a killer, it's a tool in the killer's hands_ -- Lucius Seneca "The Younger" (ca 4BC - AD65)

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of
vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
W. R. Inge (1860-1954)
Dean of St. Paul's, London

"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that
the evils of this world can be cured by legislation."
Thomas B. Reed (1839-1902)
American lawyer, politician

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human
freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of
slaves." William Pitt English politician, prime minister.

"Whenever we take away the liberties of those whom we hate we
are opening the way to loss of liberty for those we love."
Wendell L. Willkie (1892-1944)
Ameican lawyer, businessman, politician










Lookin at myself, perhaps with your eyes?  I still have to reply I know what I know because I've seen with my eyes what I've seen.  Reality is a terrible thing far more often then many even care, or perhaps dare is a better word, to contemplate.

A couple of 250 pound prison buff attackers with cricket bats vs ????? with a fire place poker?

I'm bettin on the attackers................


"He was one of those men who think that the world can be saved
by writing a pamphlet."
Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881)
English prime minister

"The basic test of freedom is perhaps less in what we are free
to do then in what we are free not to do."  Eric Hoffer
American philosopher.

"Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking
others to live as one wishes to live."  Oscar Wilde Anglo-
Irish author.

[RAIDER14]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3564113338358460384&q=self+defense

[nirvana]

I like guns and if you come into my house, you look at me and i'll blow you a new a**hole.  In Colorado we have the "make my day law", some guy comes into your house you have the legal right to splatter that perps brains flat against the wall.  If he's turning to run you can't do anything though:(   I'd still like to be able to shoot their legs.