Author Topic: Sorry Feds, States and their Citizens DO have rights! (Read 1351 times)

Gunslinger · « **Reply #30 on:** January 18, 2006, 06:12:59 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sloehand
I think you got it wrong Nash. Reps are typically for less Federal Governement, ipso facto are pro States Rights, while the Dems are completely the opposite, wanting to shell out every last 'borrowed' Federal dollar to to regulate and dole to 'protect' the people (mostly from themselves).
This wasn't what it was really about however. Reps currently in power just used their current government position to to try and enforce another Rep belief, generally a religious one. That all life is sacred and must be preserved, regardless of the human pain and suffering it will induce in both patient and their family. This was a religious issue and the ammunition the Reps had in hand was Federal power. It just got in the way of States Rights is all, so people naturally assume that was the core issue.

Not to mention most republicans think pat roberts is an bellybutton hat.

Toad · « **Reply #31 on:** January 18, 2006, 07:29:24 PM »

Perhaps I should be more clear.

I don't think Medical Marijuana OR Oregon suicide was decided on Constitutionality.

O'Connor is the ONLY justice that decided on Constitutionality in both cases. (Would have been interesting to see how Rehnquist voted.) The others served their particular ideology in both cases and that's too bad.

IMO, of course.

capt. apathy · « **Reply #32 on:** January 18, 2006, 10:08:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
Perhaps I should be more clear.

I don't think Medical Marijuana OR Oregon suicide was decided on Constitutionality.

O'Connor is the ONLY justice that decided on Constitutionality in both cases. (Would have been interesting to see how Rehnquist voted.) The others served their particular ideology in both cases and that's too bad.

IMO, of course.

I agree with your assessment of the court. no argument at all.

however the point isn't about the courts decisions so much as why this administration is fighting the rights of states to decide their own issues if this is truly an administration that believes in states rights.

Toad · « **Reply #33 on:** January 18, 2006, 10:14:11 PM »

So you're saying that the people running the Federal government want even more power? That they want the Federal government to be supreme in all things?

Say it ain't so!

I guess it's different when the other party is holding power and running the Federal government though, right?

lazs2 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 19, 2006, 08:43:43 AM »

Ok... so most policies cover suicide after 2 years. Is there any other reason anyone can think of that a person might want another dead?

I don't know... It seems that a lot of people have felt so bad that they wanted to commit suicide. I don't want doctors to be involved except like in my grandfathers case... "this perscrition if infinitely renewable at any time... if you take more than about 10 of them at any one time tho you will not wake up"

I allways figured people had a right to suicide. There may even be cases where someone does it for em out of mercy... I would rather a jury decide tho than have it become an industry....

lazs

capt. apathy · « **Reply #35 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:05:18 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Toad
So you're saying that the people running the Federal government want even more power? That they want the Federal government to be supreme in all things?

Say it ain't so!

I guess it's different when the other party is holding power and running the Federal government though, right?

yes it is different. the democrats didn't run for office on a platform of states rights and less federal involvement in our lives.

you constantly hear "you vote democrat? hope you like big gov't, the Dem's are all about big gov't. they want the feds to control everything"

the point is that the republicans are just as bad if not worse, they rally support from naive people who actually think they are gonna deliver on the promises of less federal involvement.

I know many people who's primary reason for voting republican is for less federal control of their lives. kinda sad since they aren't getting what they're looking for from either party.

Yeager · « **Reply #36 on:** January 19, 2006, 01:40:29 PM »

In my opinion liberals in america promote european style socialism, examples include but are not limited to:
====

Government welfare for all able bodied who choose not to work

Punitive taxation for those who choose to work

Substandard state mandated healthcare for all (Quality healthcare for none)

Restriction on freedom to own personal firearms

Emphasis on rehab of criminals in place of Punishment, including no capitol punishment for severe crimes against the innocent.

====
Its about liberals and conservatives, not so much about republican or democrat for me. Conservative democrat trumps a liberal republican EVERY TIME in my book.

J_A_B · « **Reply #37 on:** January 19, 2006, 02:10:51 PM »

"I allways figured people had a right to suicide. There may even be cases where someone does it for em out of mercy... I would rather a jury decide tho than have it become an industry.... "

Death houses are already an industry. It's called the nursing home industry. It is FAR better to get it over with quickly than to condemn someone to the slow death through torture and neglect in a nursing home. Most people would rather just not think about this entire issue, though. Too many people just refuse to believe the truth about how bad it is--until they end up there themselves. Of course, by then it's too late.

J_A_B

lazs2 · « **Reply #38 on:** January 19, 2006, 02:20:56 PM »

so what is the percentage of people that end up in nursintg homes? I had heard once that it was like 4% of the population.

You want to commit suicide.... fine.. do it. I just don't want to have death mills like we have abortion mills.

lazs

Hangtime · « **Reply #39 on:** January 19, 2006, 02:23:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I just don't want to have death mills like we have abortion mills.

lazs

I see you've never been in a hospital in Florida.

J_A_B · « **Reply #40 on:** January 19, 2006, 03:31:07 PM »

"so what is the percentage of people that end up in nursintg homes?"

Probably very similar than the percentage of people who would kill themselves given the opportunity, or would die naturally if not forced unwillingly to remain artifically alive.

That's the problem...many of these people are FORCED to live. They don't have a choice, often being physically restrained and force-fed so as to be unable to "harm" themselves. It's real nice, isn't it? Law-abiding citizens are locked up in jail-cell size rooms and tied down with alarms, having commited no crime beyond growing old. Then the same people who tie them down often don't even bother to come in when the poor guy craps himself or something.

How do I know this? I've seen it many, many times. Few people outside the industry--and not everyone inside--realize or care just how horrible it really is. I worked in that industry as long as I could tolerate it; eventually my moral character forced me to find a different line of work. My wife likewise works in that industry. I know what I'm talking about.

People try to say assisted legal suicide is so horrible. What a laugh. Such people won't realize just how wrong they are until it's too late. Want to know the REAL reason why it's "bad"? Because several industries out there (medication, nursing homes, etc) stand to lose income if their captives suddenly have a choice. Well, screw them. Screw the "health care" industry. I respect used-car salesman more.

I don't say this often, but on this matter--if you disagree with me, then you're wrong. I can only hope you learn the truth before it's too late.

J_A_B

lazs2 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 20, 2006, 10:43:41 AM »

nope... haven't seen florida hospitals. Would an "assisted suicide" bill make em better?

lazs

Hangtime · « **Reply #42 on:** January 20, 2006, 02:59:27 PM »

seems like everybody on the east coast gets sent to florida on retirement. End resullt is the place is teeming with wrinkle ranches.. assisted living communities abound. The hospitals seem like roach motels... old people check in... they don't check out.

I'd never want to get sick in florida... hospital care down there runs as long as your insurance does.. then yer dead.

lazs2 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 20, 2006, 04:17:55 PM »

sounds crappy... I think I will retire in Oregon or Texas. No one in my family has ever died in an old folks home.... most made their 90's or died young... my grandmother is now 98.

lazs

nirvana · « **Reply #44 on:** January 20, 2006, 05:03:18 PM »

It's not a right to die law, it's about prescribing illegal doses of drugs to people. We discussed it yesterday in U.S. Government and Politics. It's commonly linked with right to die, but that's not really what the fight is about. I can give you more info when i gte home from work if you want.