Author Topic: Altitude masters of WW2 (Read 860 times)

Angus · « **on:** January 23, 2006, 07:31:35 AM »

Which aircraft flew the highest? Looking for info of how high they went.
Ok, Ju86 right?
Some mods of P47 perhaps?
The TA 152 certainly was a high alt master yes?
And modded Spitfires, - looking for info on those.
Any others?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2006, 08:58:11 AM »

Highest combat was September 12, 1942 when Emanual Galitzine, in a modified Spit IX of the Special Service Flight operating from Northolt. He intercepted a Junkers 86R at 44,000 feet and damaged it.

I know they got some of those high alt Spits up higher too, but the 44K was the highest fight.

Angus · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2006, 09:49:37 AM »

This may start a flamefest, but I'll let it go anyway.
Rumour is that a pilot flew a Spit IX to 49K. I asked about it on these forums, but got a rather definate NO, - (mainly from the LW crowd)
Later on I read about the Mk VII which was specialized for high alt interceptions, - supposed to be able to maneuver at 44K. That means it can turn without stalling immediately.
Then, recently, I read about a specialized batch of Mk IX's, operating from North Weald rather than Northolt. They were lightened and modded for the task, and at the time the Mk VII was in service, the IX's were already topping them.
So, is it possible?
The pilot's description was that he was hanging on the prop, BTW

Guppy35 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2006, 10:09:08 AM »

Postwar during war games called Exercise Dagger, RAF recce pilots were coming over England in Spit PR19s at 49,000 feet. It exploited a gap in the radar coverage and even the early jets couldn't get up there to them.

In one of Alfred Price's books on the Spit, he mentions that lightened Spit VIIs with the extended tips were operating at 44K and that they reached speeds of around 400MPH at 40K.

I imagine the Spit IXs mentioned were from that same Special Services Flight that was set up for the high alt work.

Harry · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2006, 10:31:06 AM »

I expect the Ta 152 had the greatest normal service ceiling with 15,000 meters, but some specialized Spit or other interceptor probably went higher.

Angus · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2006, 10:57:58 AM »

Oh, forgot to mention, that be it Northolt or North Weald, I found out that "my pilot" was operating at the same field as those specialized Mk IX's.
The timeframe I have is 1943-1944, 1944 being more probable, but well before D-day. I'll have to take a dip into the books to find more.
Those Mk IX's that were modded were basically lightened (armour, cannons, and such), had full wings of course, and perhaps they were fiddling with the turbo's. Not sure. (another dip into the books, - "sigh")
But as a sidenote, if fully armed first generation Mk IX's (Merlin 61) were able to cruise squadron-vise at 43K (Source Duncan-Smith) already in 1942, then it sounds logical that later generation Mk IX's, with a modded engine, better fuel perhaps, and weighting less could hang on it's prop at 49K.
But there is an issue with the pressure. It will have negative effects on the human body, - similar to diver sickness basically. (Bubble formation in the blood, already on the initial stages being painful, - nicknamed "bends")
And the lack of pressure will result in breathing problems, - the pilot not being able to inhale.
Pilots have crossed that barrier without pressure cabins I belive, but not long without a different oxygen system, - that is "pressure breathing" where the pilot will not breath, rather just exhale, - the system filling his lungs again.
So, that is another issue to this thread. Was any of such used during WW2?

The TA 152 crossed 50.000 feet, yes?
And a pressurized cockpit, right?

Angus · « **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2006, 11:01:35 AM »

Oh, the Ta 152 with 15K as a cervice ceiling (then it still climbs) makes roughly 49.100 feet BTW.
If memory serves (and some make fun of mine) it was the Squadron cervice fighter with the utmost highest service ceiling.
I'm still curious about P47's though. Those could have been modded to go really high.

Krusty · « **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2006, 12:42:43 PM »

I had a couple of different books list the highest Ju86P interception at 49k and 49.5k, respectively. I know more than 1 86P was intercepted this high (at least a handful were, before the LW stopped the flights).

Furball · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2006, 01:31:14 PM »

AKAK. P38. Last seen at 80k and climbing.

Fencer51 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2006, 03:06:59 PM »

Pierre Clostermann's book "The Big Show" has a chapter on his squadron's deployment to Scapa Flow for interception of recon planes. They were issued Spit Mk Vs and Spit VIIs. Well worth a reread if you have the book.

Kev367th · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2006, 03:32:23 PM »

3 Spit V's operating out of Egpyt were modded to intercept Ju's, not got to hand how high they got.

But Guppy is correct about the highest engagement of WWII.
Modded Spit IX Hi Alt flight RAF Northolt vs Ju (two pilots met after the war I believe).

Angus · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2006, 05:51:55 PM »

Got to dig into my pile to find out more.
Anyway, all interesting.
Does anyone have something on the specs of the Ju 86???

I don't even have a picture of it, - well, AFAIK.

Always been very interested in Junkers. Brilliant designer, and quite a story about that old guy. (well, sad story eventually)

Klum25th · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2006, 08:20:09 PM »

This book I have says the P38 service ceiling was 44,000ft. So maybe look up the P38.

The He219 had a service ceiling of 41,665ft.

P51 service ceiling of 41,900ft.

P47 service ceiling of 42,000ft.

Reggiane Re 2005 Sagittario service ceiling of 12,000m.

Ryan FR-1 Fireball service ceiling of 43,100ft.

Lusche · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2006, 03:44:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Klum25th

The He219 had a service ceiling of 41,665ft.

It´s sadly one of the many wrong things, that are written about in many books, especially older ones 8I have a lot of them). And the new ones that use the old ones as a source ;-)

The combat versions of the 219 were not that powerful as sometimes is depicted. Weapons and equipment took a heavy toll, most numbers published refer to clean test planes. In combat, the 219 struggled to reach 9000m (=30000 ft). BTW, the often cited 670km/h (418 mph) max speed were also not true for the combat versions, which did make around 560-590 km/h.

SMIDSY · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2006, 06:07:44 AM »

i know you are talking about RL. but my AHII altitude record is 70k in a Ta-152H.