What am I doing wrong?

[Ast]

Okay guys, I'm pretty new to all this, now last night I had an odd situation. I was in a P-51D at 20k feet, there was a furball below me to my 9 oclock low, probably at about 10k feet. I dropped my tanks, switched to my guns, and rolled over into a slight dive straight into the furball, which was about 6v8, nme with advantage, including one 262 upping from the field at the time. I hit about 500 on the red dot(True airspeed?) and 460 on IAS. I was at aobut a 4 degree AoA coming down on this furball, I had the target(BF109) in my sights at 400, I squeeze, miss, 200 comes quickly, hit hit hit, wing falls off. Splash 1 and pull up  into a Zoom climb. I used my stored energy(Altitude) to trade for speed. Now, I pulled back up, but somehow, even at that speed, a Spit 5 or 9, can't remember which, caught my tail, and somehow he FOLLOWED me up to about a 3,000ft/m climb rate, while he was turn fighting? HOW did he merge on me and keep up with me when he was going *much* slower than me? I started a slow left not to bleed E, I then pulled an immelman, and came down back into the furball with plenty of speed, suddenly I hear the familiar ping ping, the dang spit 5/9 followed me up from a high E high speed dive zoom and boom tactic and pinged me on my way back down, I realize he was a MUCH better pilot, but explain to me what I did wrong here? I used my advantages as good as I could. I'm tryin to learn but it's just so discouraging when I do what I can and it still doesn't work.

[Sloehand]

Only a guess here, better pilots can probably give much better info on this, but with your confusion whether it was a spit5 or a 9, it may have been that it was a spit8, or mostly likely, actually a spit16.  While I don't have the specific specs on this, the Spit16 is one of the very fastest planes and climbers in the game.  Like all spits they retain E very well and dive good too.  With some E behind it, it may have been able to somewhat match you in your climb, and it may not have even been the plane you thought was doing the turning and burning in the furball.  SA is one of the most difficult skills of the game and confusion of where an enemy comes from and his actual E state can happen very easily.
This is the only explanation I can think of as I don't think the spit5 could be as efficient as you describe and though the spit9 just might.  But IMO the spit16 definitely could.

[mars01]

It was a different spit, and that couldn't have been a furball if it was 10k.

[Kazaa]

I was reading your little pilot breif here, but its A little hazy to put together, you must understand that if you have A tape then we could point out everything.

[Sable]

You should probably start filming your fights - that way you can go over what happened afterwards, and then show others the exact situation if you need further help with it.  Generally this kind of stuff is a combination of managing your energy (pulling too many G's and bleeding more speed then you need to), reading the energy state of other planes (that low con might have just come out of his own dive and be doing 400+mph), and situational awareness (it could have been a second plane of the same type that was in a better position and bounced you).

[Kazaa]

I agree with Sloehand

Rember your S/A might not be up to par, it could have been A totaly different Spitfire then you first thought.

[wetrat]

In AH there is no such thing as a 10k furball. Not since the pizza map where the ground was 10k in some places, anyway.

[Pooface]

ast, dont get discouraged, when you're new its often hard to understand how a pilot does what he does. just keep at it, you'll catch on soon enough, i promise

[Booz]

I agree, different spitfire joined your 10k furball. Be glad it wasn't a complete circle jerk on the deck or there woulda been 3 different spitfires.

[Ast]

Furball to me is a fight over 10 people, I'm sorry I am trying to understand. So your telling me that a spit, that was turn fighting slowly with hurricane can merge on me going 500mph and keep up with me?

[Booz]

No, I'm telling you that another spit from 3.5k away is diving on you now and you just hadn't noticed him yet. Somehow you've missed seeing the 1st one break off and are really looking at #2.

[daddog]

No, they are not trying to tell you that, because it can’t happen. It must have been a Spit you did not see, or you greatly misjudged the Spit you were focused on. As others have already stated having a good situational awareness is not a quickly learned skill. Your looking at months or years to gradually improve that skill. Use your film viewer. That will help you see what you did wrong.

[dedalos]

1) this is a troll
2) it was a different spit
3) You just had an experience of AH physics where a spit can pull 180 and follow you up (Highly unlikly since that would be impossible)

[nimble]

Originally posted by Ast
I was in a P-51D at 20k feet, there was a furball below me to my 9 oclock low, probably at about 10k feet.

Good so far.

I dropped my tanks, switched to my guns, and rolled over into a slight dive straight into the furball

If you were going for BNZ you should have circled around to get a clear view of where all enemy cons were. By diving slightly you gave all the enemy cons a chance to follow your path and call 6's as needed as well as be prepared for your climb.

 I used my stored energy(Altitude) to trade for speed. Now, I pulled back up, but somehow, even at that speed, a Spit 5 or 9, can't remember which, caught my tail, and somehow he FOLLOWED me up to about a 3,000ft/m climb rate, while he was turn fighting?

Probably another spit or you misjudged his E. Spit16's can accelerate so fast in a dive that if you went after the 109 2-3k under the spit he could build up enough E by merging on you as you climbed. Spit16 also holds E much better than a pony and climbs better.

I started a slow left not to bleed E

Any turn blows E, and the spit holds his better than you.

I then pulled an immelman, and came down back into the furball with plenty of speed, suddenly I hear the familiar ping ping, the dang spit 5/9 followed me up from a high E high speed dive zoom and boom tactic and pinged me on my way back down, I realize he was a MUCH better pilot, but explain to me what I did wrong here?

You should have extended away from the spit, by pulling an immelman you allowed him to cut you off in the turn and close the distance.

I used my advantages as good as I could. I'm tryin to learn but it's just so discouraging when I do what I can and it still doesn't work.

Next time get a good idea of the whole situation you are in.  Rather than start diving in immediatley circle around the fight a bit until you are sure of their altitudes. Find how far you can dive most directly from the top of the target rather than try to roll in easy on his 6. Circling down to 15-16k or so directly on top of the fight(staying about 325-375) and diving in on the highest of the cons probably would have worked better. Taking a leisurely path down gives them more opprotunity to check6 or set you up to be worked down. When I BnZ I come in almost directly on top of my target. When your advantage is about gone from these more direct passes extend and climb again. It's boring but that's how BnZ goes. If it's a spit on you get co-E(and try to stay) above his max speed and go relatively level. If you don't burn too much E you should be in the clear as he will eventually slow down below your maximum speed.

[Ast]

Originally posted by nimble
Next time get a good idea of the whole situation you are in.  Rather than start diving in immediatley circle around the fight a bit until you are sure of their altitudes. Find how far you can dive most directly from the top of the target rather than try to roll in easy on his 6. Circling down to 15-16k or so directly on top of the fight(staying about 325-375) and diving in on the highest of the cons probably would have worked better. Taking a leisurely path down gives them more opprotunity to check6 or set you up to be worked down. When I BnZ I come in almost directly on top of my target. When your advantage is about gone from these more direct passes extend and climb again. It's boring but that's how BnZ goes. If it's a spit on you get co-E(and try to stay) above his max speed and go relatively level. If you don't burn too much E you should be in the clear as he will eventually slow down below your maximum speed.

Thank you, that was great advice! I'm gonna try that next time! What you said makes alot more sense to me. The more and more I think about it, I may have massively misjudged this fight, information was from the people in the area, maybe I was so fixated on that 262 coming up that I didn't see another spit that had enough to keep with me. DOH! I have GOT to get more SA. Last night I flew offline for a while trying to keep the enemy in my view at all times without blacking out and that helped a bit, I mistook this game for a regular flight sim, it's not. It's insanely fun and challenging. And no, I'M not a troll, but I am trying to learn. I will start filming EVERY flight from now on so I can go back.