P-47D11 Skins

[Fencer51]

Started work on some P-47s.  Current progress below.  Any constructive comments are more than welcome.

[Treize69]

Other than the distortion on the top of the fuselage star-and-bar, they look great to me. But Im not sure of how to fix that. Also the kill mark on the top pic looks squished at the sides.

If I'm not mistaken- Hofer, Blakeslee, and Megura right?

[Krusty]

2nd image: Wouldn't have stars under both wings, as far as I know.

last image: You sure about those yellow circles? Haven't seen those since the '30s on US planes. On this I could be way wrong but I haven't seen any others with this.

Red outline on the stars and bars: The red outline was only in use for a short while, as you know. I don't recall off the top of my head when, but just a reminder to cross-reference or check your refs and make sure the plane in question had it.

I like that first one. The boxing donkey reminds me of your boxing bird avatar.

EDIT: QP*L and WD*C are 95% identical (the only difference being the nose art and the squad codes). You should probably just pick 1 of the 2.

[Treize69]

P-47s of the 8th were given stars under both wings to help distinguish them from Fw-190s, much the same as both P-47s and P-51s were given wing and tail stripes to identify them. Bomber gunners shot first, asked questions later.

The yellow border is also a local identification trick.

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Krusty
2nd image: Wouldn't have stars under both wings, as far as I know.

last image: You sure about those yellow circles? Haven't seen those since the '30s on US planes. On this I could be way wrong but I haven't seen any others with this.

Red outline on the stars and bars: The red outline was only in use for a short while, as you know. I don't recall off the top of my head when, but just a reminder to cross-reference or check your refs and make sure the plane in question had it.

I like that first one. The boxing donkey reminds me of your boxing bird avatar.

EDIT: QP*L and WD*C are 95% identical (the only difference being the nose art and the squad codes). You should probably just pick 1 of the 2.

Thanks guys for the quick comments.

Yeah they put stars under both wings so the bomber guys would not mistake them for FWs.  These were 59 inches in diamater.

The yellow circles were in use until July 1943.  This fits the photo reference for QP-K, which is Vic France's P-47.  Don Allen who did most of the 4th FGs noseart was France's crew chief.

The red around the stars was used from July 1943 until November 1943.

I didnt even notice the distortions until you pointed it out.  I will see what I can do with it.

QP-L and WD-C are not identical.  The scuff marks are different, the squadron codes are different, the dings are different, the National markings are different, the grey/od demarcation lines on the fusalage are different and the dirt and olive drab wear should be entirely different unless I got the wrong layers enabled.  This I will check.

The planes are Lt Vic France's QP-K from "Spring" 1943.

Lt Col Don Blakelee's WD-C from the November 1943 to January 7 1944 time period.  On January 7, 1944 the Col was almost killed in this plane and it returned to base shot to hell with oil all over the entire fusalage.  Only the good shooting of James Goodson saved him.

QP-L, F/O Ralph "Kid" Hofer who got his kill shown in his first mission on October 7, 1943.

Thinking about doing Beeson's P-47 and Goodson's P-47.  Would love to do Gentile's and Godfrey's but thats getting a bit much and I would like to get on to Clostermann's MkIX Spit.

[Guppy35]

Krusty, ya got no faith!

Trust me that Fencer would have checked on the red outlines on 4th FG birds

I'll save him the pain of having to post the evidence.

The Yellow outline to the star was an early 43 version.  Note the yellow outline in this image of the bird in question.  I can post photos of others if you are still in doubt.



The red outlined star and bar is late 43.   Note the oversized red outlined star and bar under the left wing of this 4th Jug.  It was also the same size on the right wing.  This was for better recognition by folks with itchy trigger fingers.  This was common on Jugs from late 43 on.  Again if you want more photos I can post em to support it.


The no red outline star and bar was early 44.

[Nr_RaVeN]

They look nice I like the gun smoke effect as well as the under wing staining.
the colors look "on" too.
the chips are also a nice touch .
I would just slide the fuselage stars down a bit.   Perhaps a hair smaller so they don't stretch out .

I like the boxing A@@ the best


~S~ RaVe

[Treize69]

I hope you do decide to do a Beeson skin, either his -47 or his -51B. Hes always been my favorite of the Eagles.

[rogerdee]

i lioke your work its always good
 your first two are very similar to a skin that is already in the game or is in the que to come in the gamehaving said that theres not much difference with most squadrons  apart from cowlings and stripes.  
  good luck when u submit them

[Fencer51]

They look nice I like the gun smoke effect as well as the under wing staining.
the colors look "on" too.
the chips are also a nice touch .
I would just slide the fuselage stars down a bit. Perhaps a hair smaller so they don't stretch out .

I like the boxing A@@ the best

Thanks Nr_Raven.  I admire your Luftwaffe work as well.  I prefer them shot full of holes, but I like them to look realistic while I am doing it.
I will work on the stars.

Krusty, ya got no faith!

Trust me that Fencer would have checked on the red outlines on 4th FG birds

I'll save him the pain of having to post the evidence.

Thanks Dan!

And I appreciate you posting that, I still don't have a scanner.

Originally posted by Treize69
I hope you do decide to do a Beeson skin, either his -47 or his -51B. Hes always been my favorite of the Eagles.

I will do Beeson's P-47 its only fitting as he was the 4th FGs first ace.
But I really need a 336th Sqd 47 to round out the Group set.  The 4th FG 51Bs are many and extremely well done, so there is no point in adding another 4th FG 51B.. unless it's Kid Hofer's..   That baby is sweet.

I have been reading about these guys for years now.  That's why I did Vic France's 47.  He was not as well known as some others but he always stood out in my mind from what I have read about him.  That goes for a couple dozen others too.  Hively, Godfrey, Gentile, Hofer, McKennon, Norley, Goodson, Blakeslee, Peterson, Montgomery, Millikan, Carlson, Megura, Glover, Pisanos, Beeson, the list goes on...  If we had room I do all their planes because they deserve to be remembered.  All the WWII pilots do.  Well, except for the Nazis.

i lioke your work its always good
your first two are very similar to a skin that is already in the game or is in the que to come in the gamehaving said that theres not much difference with most squadrons apart from cowlings and stripes.
good luck when u submit them

Thanks Rogerdee, I hate to disagree but my work is mediocre at best, what I do well is research the subject to get it correct.  The artistic flavor is something I am lacking.  After all I am an engineer and if it's "color 41 82 51" then bygod it should be "color 41 82 51".  Sigh.. working on that though.  Forunately I have been able to glean tips from all the other good skinners like yourself and good old Fester posted that tips guide a while back which has been helpful.

I saw only 1 47D11, maybe I need to check again.  I will not duplicate anything anyone else has done, and my sole intent was to fill out the 4th FG's birds and maybe if I get around to it add some 56th FG birds for our sister Group in Rookland.

[Nr_RaVeN]

Originally posted by Fencer51
Thanks Nr_Raven.  I admire your Luftwaffe work as well.  I prefer them shot full of holes, but I like them to look realistic while I am doing it.
I will work on the stars.

yes I  found that out from our last air to air encounter...  I was picking my nose and didn't see you coming.
~S~ Rave

[Majors]

Hi Mates

Believe the Red Surround went into effect in Spring of 43.  Was on until late Summer of 43.  Was correct for the aircraft you have it on.  However, was only in four places.  Yellow surrond cocard was in 6 places.

Believe large underwing stars and bars were applied after June 1944 so friendly ground forces would not shoot at '47's as they resembled the 190 from the ground.  Some modesl had huge markings under the wings.

Having grown up during WWII, with a Dad that was a Navy pilot, I remember a lot of this stuff.

You guys do super work, by the way.


Majors
Oldest Yank in the RAF
(maybe oldest in AH)

[Krusty]

It's not that I needed him to prove it or that I doubted him, it was simply a friendly reminder. Sometimes it pays to state the obvious. Sorry if I offended.

[Fencer51]

Originally posted by Krusty
It's not that I needed him to prove it or that I doubted him, it was simply a friendly reminder. Sometimes it pays to state the obvious. Sorry if I offended.

Not on my account.  I did check and I did not have the correct layers setup when I did the screen shot for WD-C.  You were correct.

I have since fixed this.

Believe the Red Surround went into effect in Spring of 43. Was on until late Summer of 43. Was correct for the aircraft you have it on. However, was only in four places. Yellow surrond cocard was in 6 places.

Believe large underwing stars and bars were applied after June 1944 so friendly ground forces would not shoot at '47's as they resembled the 190 from the ground. Some modesl had huge markings under the wings.

The large stars were put under the wings from from the first issue of 47s to the 4th FG.   The large stars under the wings remained in service throughout the 4th FGs usage of the P-47.

The Red border was in service until November 5, 1943.

[Bullethead]

Very nice, but you asked for some constructive criticism, so here it is .

This concerns paint chipping and is based on my own experience working on real planes, plus all the photos I've poured over.  It's just MHO, however, so take it or leave it.

IMHO, you shouldn't have a random scatter of big chips on the wings and tail surfaces, except in the very special case of temporary paint coming off in hunks.  For normal wear and tear on permanent paint, the chipping should reflect the mechanisms that produce chipping.

On the upper wing, chipping is caused almost exclusively by people walking and working on top of it.  This includes not only the wing root (cockpit entry and engine service) but also out to and around the gunbays.  You've got the wingroot just fine, but IMHO in the time it took to wear off that much paint, there'd have been a similar amount of traffic out to the gunbays.  This would produce a definite pattern, namely trails leading to the gunbays along the main structural members that guys use to support their weight, plus wear around the bays themselves.  The edges of the bay covers would be chipped from handling, the paint on and around their fasteners would be chipped from screwdrivers slipping, and beside the bays would be big scraped areas along the structural members where heavy ammo crates have been set down and scraped across the surface.  The gunbay panels on Jugs hinged at the rear edge, with ammo crates on both sides and the armorers kneeling behind the bay and leaning over the upright cover to load the guns.  IMHO, the chipping therefore should reflect this activity instead of being a scatter of big chips.

On the horizontal tail, however, there shouldn't be anywhere near that much chipping.   This is mainly because nobody walked on it, so there was no real mechanism to produce chips.  There were some small access panels, however, to work on the elevator controls, so these should have some chipping around the edges and on their fasteners to reflect that.  But they could be reached from the ground or a step ladder beside the plane.