Author Topic: Chechen Rebellion  (Read 891 times)

Offline Bodhi

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8698
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2006, 12:46:53 PM »
I personally blame Chuck Norris for the whole mess.
I regret doing business with TD Computer Systems.

Offline WhiteHawk

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1815
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2006, 01:43:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Furball
anyone that decides to kill a load of school children with nailbombs etc. no matter what their 'justification' for it, do not deserve to be negotiated with.  they deserve to be hunted down and murdered one by one.


American bombs kill schoolchildren.  This is what they call 'war'.

Offline Vad

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 474
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2006, 01:45:50 PM »
Hawklore, why are you asking? I see that you already have the answer, and just want to share your point of view with everybody. It is flame bait, nothing else.

How you see Chechen war, or Iraq war, or any war on this planet depends only on your belief. It is the question of your faireness.

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Re: Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2006, 01:58:22 PM »
Without reading your whole post and replies, just what comes into my mind, that, AFAIK, isn't well-known by Western people.

1) In 1991-1994 about 500,000 non-Chechen population fled Chechnya because of what in Western nespeak is called "ethnic cleansings". Not belonging to Chechen prehistoric clans and not owning a machinegun was a reason enough to be robbed, raped and killed.

2) In 1996 the "peace treaty" was signed with Chechen leadership. Federal troops were withdrawn and Chechens were left on their own. In 3 next years they robbed all they could reach, and returned to their ages-old practice of attacks on neighbouring regions, mostly Cossack lands. In August 1999 they began a planned hostilities against Dagestan, where they got defeated by local militia (i mean - armed population, not police forces) with the assistance from Federal troops (air strikes and artillery support).

3) Current state of affairs is a very successfull version of "Vietnamisaion", and a return to Imperial policy regarding national autonomies. One clan gets Federal support and was granted a right to bear arms to fight insurgents. IMHO they may do what they want to their "competitors", if only they stop terrorist acts in Russia.

4) History of Chechen terrorism didn't start in 2002 with Dubrovka theatre attack. Back in 1995 Chechen gangsters took a maternity hospital (!!!) in a town of Budennovsk for ransom, after storming a town killing over 150 people in the strteets. Main terror acts: attack on Kizlyar, Dagestan in 1996, blowing up apartment houses in Moscow, Volgodonsk and Buinaksk, etc. In Msk they blew up two apartment houses, killing over 300 people who were sleeping in their beds. I take it personally, it could be my house targeted for another attack. Thank god - my local Militia (Police) officer was a Chechen, he's a nice guy, but he still didn't learn Russian in 15 years of service...

5) A Chechen problem appeared in early 1800s, when their gangs were fought to secure a Military-Georgian road, connecting mainland Russia with Kingdom of Georgia. At that times Chechens were pagans, making their business on robbery. They were hated and fought by almost all their neighbours, from Moslim Dagestanians to Christian Osetins. But, unlike Sioux or Navajo Indians they were not totally slaughtered.

6) On Feb. 23rd 1944 most of Chechens were deported to Kazakhstan for their unanimous support to nazis. Instead of total slaughter Stalin preferred to exile them, as usually being too humanistic. In 1958 they were allowed to come back, immediately starting their traditional slaughter and rule of the gun. Non-Chechen population began to riot against it, storming local Party commeetee after they started to decorate their fences with human guts...

7) Chechens usually were quite loyal to Russian power. Chechens were personal body-guards of the last Emperor. They are noble and proud people. Their main problem is that their most popular occupation is banditism. So it goes...

Offline lasersailor184

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8938
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2006, 01:58:26 PM »
You don't always have to pick a side.  You don't always have to be in the argument.  

While I won't really pick any side, it'll be a green day in hell the day I say anything good about Chechens.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2006, 02:05:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MrRiplEy[H]
The whole conflict is a gigantic clustered **** which nobody should touch with a 10-foot pole. Both sides are dirty as hell and guilty of attrocities of historical scale.


All I can say is that we are not going to tolerate mass murders and public executions on TV, as it happened in 1996-99.

I strongly advise you to watch this movie: http://imdb.com/title/tt0309047/

It's a WAR, don't you understand?!

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2006, 02:15:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by WhiteHawk
American bombs kill schoolchildren.  This is what they call 'war'.


Intent, WhiteHawk, intent.

It is brilliantly clear that the intent of Chechen rebels in a Moscow theater full on ordinary citizens or a school full of children is different from collateral damage of an attack on a legitimate miltary target.

But you knew that, perhaps your intent is questionable.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2006, 03:02:20 PM »
I doubt that a movie can replace the actual footage I've seen from there Boroda.

I've seen enough beheadings of russians to have sympathy for you guys.

OTOH I've seen russians treat POW:s worse than animals, stuck to cargotrain naked at below freezing and then executing them.

Everything that I've seen from there yells 'stay out' and to be honest I thought twice about even posting here.
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline B@tfinkV

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5751
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2006, 03:27:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Not trying to create any hostility. I just want clarification.

By the statement quoted above, are you referring to the Chechen / Russian conflict or the one in Iraq / Afghanistan?

If you are infact referring to the latter, just who DO you want to be the victor given the condition for victory you specify in the post?


i would have thought my opinions on this war were obvious.

my initial reason for entering this thread was that hawklore wasnt sure which side to take. i found that to be totaly stupid.

and that its obvious that i am not talking about afganistan/iraq and none of my posts here have had any reference to this conflict..


Any fight or war in the world involving Brittish forces, and our Allies, i would hope can be resolved with as little casualties to our forces as possible.


as to 'winning a war', i dont believe it is possible. there is always losers on both sides, and the winners very rarely 'win' anything.


Our young boys are brave, and i hope that not another single one dies. sad that this is impossible.







edit: and just to clarify why the prospect of American soldiers entering this Rus/che conflict was brought up by me.....hawklore told me that this conflict was on his backdoor step.

i simply said it wasnt on mine, and i thank god that it isnt.




I side with niether, because its not my war. when my war comes, ill die for my family and kids.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2006, 03:35:26 PM by B@tfinkV »
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Hawklore

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4798
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2006, 03:41:51 PM »
Thanks Boroda.

I'll look into finding that movie to watch...

I guess I allready have a viewpoint, and like all the others, it's stay out, but I got caught up in the which view do I take instead of the whats your opinion on it.

If all the historical information you provided is true, then the Chechens are truly a dangerous breed of 'terrorists'.
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2006, 04:05:12 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hawklore


Calling the Chechens terroists is like calling the Minutemen and Freedom Fighters of the american revolution terroists.



One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Honestly though...when a group takes over a grade school or a theater and murders hundreds of people, they are more likely to be seen as terrorists in the eyes of many.  



ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2006, 04:12:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bodhi
I personally blame Chuck Norris for the whole mess.

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13958
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2006, 04:56:30 PM »
Batfink, I'd still like the answer to my second question.

Given the circumstances you postulate that the war with troorism cannot be won unless one side or the other is dead, just who do you want to win the conflict?

As to the other ramblings you posted in the answer to my first questions, it was all a null message. I looked but there was no content.

Boroda,

Stalin too humanistic?!?!?! :confused:  :rofl  :rofl  :rofl  :rofl  And to think some folks here didn't believe you had any humor outside of a vodka bottle.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline B@tfinkV

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5751
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2006, 05:29:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Batfink, I'd still like the answer to my second question.

Given the circumstances you postulate that the war with troorism cannot be won unless one side or the other is dead, just who do you want to win the conflict?

 



once again you fail to comprehend me.



i was always refering to the 'war' between the russians and the chechens being impossible to win untill one side is totaly wiped out.

who ever said anything about any other conflicts?


this is the last time i take you seriously before i suspect you of trolling me.
 400 yrds on my tail, right where i want you... [/size]

Offline Hawklore

  • Parolee
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4798
Chechen Rebellion
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2006, 05:40:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
once again you fail to comprehend me.



i was always refering to the 'war' between the russians and the chechens being impossible to win untill one side is totaly wiped out.

who ever said anything about any other conflicts?


this is the last time i take you seriously before i suspect you of trolling me.


Perhaps it's the fact that you inclined US troops were fighting in the Chechen Rebellion?
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart.
Trouble no one about their religion;
respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours.
Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life." - Chief Tecumseh