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Author Topic: main spar of the Fw190  (Read 3074 times)

Offline Crumpp

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2006, 02:45:10 PM »
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Was only continuous after assembly, just like the Zeke.


No the Zeke was bolted, the FW190's permanently attached together.  You cannot disassemble it Milo.  It is a constructed girder.

Why do you think there is part number for the whole wing assembly in the Ersatzteilliste, Milo.  Two pages up from the diagram you posted it shows the assembled main spar.

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The argument was that the spar was solid, and could not be repaired or replaced in the field. The fact that (at the steel mill) this thing was formed from separate smaller pieces doesn't mean much. You still can't replace or repair it.


Correct.  You cannot repair it once assembled.   The whole wing is replaced.  

The fuselage is lifted and the wing removed.

Angus you are on the right track but it was not for ease of repair.  It was for ease of assembly.  The wing sections are constructed in jigs by section.  When complete, the spar sections are permanently attached to form the wing.  Two wings are then joined when the center section is permanently attached and the final skins applied.  The main spar is one continous piece just as it states in Focke Wulfs specifications and the Flugzeug-Handbuch.

All the best,

Crumpp
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storch

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2006, 05:13:59 PM »
the spar I saw had no visible joints and I looked at it for some time.  it appeared to be milled from a single billet.  I'm amazed to see that it was joined.  perhaps milo would explain how it was joined seemlessly?
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Offline straffo

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2006, 05:14:02 PM »
So it just like Dewoitine 1922 design.

Where is the inovation ?
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Offline Angus

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2006, 06:08:37 PM »
Hehe, all interesting.
"No the Zeke was bolted, the FW190's permanently attached together. You cannot disassemble it Milo. It is a constructed girder."

Firstly, on first expession, I'd think the Zeke approach would be pretty good.
But the 190 Wing is all removable though, just hooks off. cute.....

Anyway, it was an assembled spar. How? doesn't matter. Assembled.
In 1940's you could have made it a whole one, just play with paper and scissors and you know what I mean. But they took the cleverer method and assembled it from units, very much easier etc.
"Assembled whole spar", - now how's that.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2006, 08:00:37 PM »
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How? doesn't matter. Assembled.


Whatever you want to think.

Certainly impressed Grumman.

And the RAE.

All the best,

Crumpp
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Offline Angus

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2006, 02:31:16 AM »
What I want to "think"????????????
Are you missing a screw? You claimed it was a single unassembled spar and it wasn't. No matter what you "think".
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Crumpp

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2006, 03:41:12 AM »
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The FW-190's is one solid piece running throughout most of the wing. It is not bolted together or fitted from the fuselage. The wings run under the fuselage and the main spar is one continous piece.


Everything I said is true Angus.

Come down and check it out yourself.  Storch did!

The Museum is public and anyone can visit.

Wouldn't be the first time Milo posted some silly drawing and derived at a completely wrong conclusion.   The more crap he post's the better.

All the best,

Crumpp
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Offline Charge

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2006, 04:26:42 AM »
"Anyway, it was an assembled spar. How? doesn't matter. Assembled."

Heh heh, I wonder who could make a 10 meter main spar out of a solid piece of metal. Billet aluminun main spar. :lol


So much ado about nothing... :rolleyes:

-C+
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Offline Angus

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2006, 06:23:11 AM »
You  can make it solid. Play a bit with scissors and paper and you'll know what I mean. Cut & bend. But it's complicated.
What bothers me here is that while actually many of us thought it must have been made out of smaller parts (gaining in the manufacture, loosing a little in strength and weight), Crumpp painted another picture. NO IT IS NOT FITTED TOGETHER.
Now, this boring haggle is not about it being better or worse (I think fitted together is a much more practical solution), but the blimming bluff about it.
Solid means solid. Assembled means assembled. Crumpp either threw a bluff, or thought it was solid, - either way, he cannot face it.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

storch

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2006, 07:29:54 AM »
the point being that I work with many metals.  we cut, assemble, join, weld and bolt together stuff.  there is no way to do it seamlessly.  the spar I saw was extruded and milled there were no joints.  repairing it must have been very difficult requiring the entire wing to be dis-assembled never the less the main spar I saw is one solid, massive piece of aluminum and a functional work of craftsmanship and art.
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Offline Grits

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2006, 07:59:06 AM »
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Originally posted by Angus
You claimed it was a single unassembled spar and it wasn't. No matter what you "think".


Actually, he said it was one continuous piece, which it is regardless if it started out as more than one piece, he never said it was unassembled.

Can we move on to something constructive?
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Offline MiloMorai

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2006, 09:41:35 AM »
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Originally posted by storch
the point being that I work with many metals.  we cut, assemble, join, weld and bolt together stuff.  there is no way to do it seamlessly.  the spar I saw was extruded and milled there were no joints.  repairing it must have been very difficult requiring the entire wing to be dis-assembled never the less the main spar I saw is one solid, massive piece of aluminum and a functional work of craftsmanship and art.


Storch, if you work with metals you know how to read drawings. Drawings show broken lines and solid lines and you must know what they mean.

He said more than that Grits if you read the original thread.
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Offline Angus

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2006, 09:48:29 AM »
He said it was a solid piece. That is solid.
In complete language, solid.
A very important term in engineering. Well, I mostly know construction stuff, but solid and assembled/joined are completely different issues.
Typically, the joined will just be a wee heavier (overlapping), but structurally it doesn't mean anything, can be just as strong.
So, again, that's how I understood Crumpp, - the "one continuous piece".
After hagging with Milo, it seemed pretty "solid" to me.
And my first language isn't even English.......
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Grits

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2006, 10:19:05 AM »
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Originally posted by MiloMorai
He said more than that Grits if you read the original thread.


So what if he did? How does this further our knowlege of WWII aircraft? What does it prove other than you and Crumpp have a personal feud?

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Originally posted by Angus
So, again, that's how I understood Crumpp, - the "one continuous piece".


When I read that I took it to mean "not able to dis-assemble" which is what Crumpp meant. The fact that you misunderstood what Crumpp said, and I admit he could have been more precise in his wording, has nothing to do with what Crumpp meant to say. You, and Milo, took the worst possible meaning of his less than precise wording so you can attempt to discredit him on the next meaningless pissing match you guys (both sides, not just you and Milo) get into.

Less pointless personal feuds, more constructive discussion. This thread is nothing more than a way to score personal feud points and is of no use whatsoever.

Lets move on please.
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Offline Angus

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main spar of the Fw190
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2006, 10:44:59 AM »
AHA!
Territorial pissing!

Anyway, I guess I didn't misunderstand Crumpp after all, - he flushed the promotion of the matter rather than me (and others getting it wrong (?). Well, that happens. But as he was quite snappy about it, I really really thought he meant what he said. Well, ok. Move on...to something constructive perhaps?
So the 190 has a "whole wing" and therefore could be categorized with the few (?) WW2 built aircraft that took this path right?
The A6M and the Bearcat are the only ones that come to mind, but there are surely many that can shed a light on that. Were the Japanese the first to do this successfully? How is the A6M spar? What is the benefit? What is the cost?

( I imagine that the benefit is strenght and the cost is maintenance, but that of course, could be wrong)
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)
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