Language Use

[Midnight]

Why is it that some people just can't use proper English when posting on these boards? Hold on now. I don't mean those people in foreign countries that don't speak/read/write English as their first language. I am talking about those who live in the US and know proper English yet do not use it.

There are some that do this quite a bit, which is what prompted this post. I can only read so many intentionally hacked words without snapping.  

It is amazing how the foreign language types seem to always try to use proper English when those who actually live here don't. Not a very good impression to make.

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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

[This message has been edited by Midnight (edited 01-20-2001).]

[TheWobble]

<raises hand>   GULITY!!!!

I know i butcher spelling alot and the sad fact is that i just really dont care, I am awful at trying to put what I am trying to convey in words so its hard to care, hell many times i mispell something and it turns out saying something better than what I was trying to type it correctly
I can keep a crowd enthralled for hours talking just off the top of my head but when it come to this I am....."text challenged"  

[Midnight]

I don't mean poor spelling Wobble. Everyone mispells words. I mean people that intentionally use words other than the correct word... I have some very specific instances in mind.. I know othr will have seen the same thing.

[qts]

The problem is endemic on-line, in email and UseNet as well as here.

As you say, people simply don't care. My response thus far has been to say, "Don't come looking for a job until you can write correctly."

I'm 34 and it seems to me that most of the offenders are considerably younger.


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qts

[Jimdandy]

 

Originally posted by qts:
The problem is endemic on-line, in email and UseNet as well as here.

As you say, people simply don't care. My response thus far has been to say, "Don't come looking for a job until you can write correctly."

I'm 34 and it seems to me that most of the offenders are considerably younger.

I heard an interesting story on Public Radio that talked about that about a year ago. They were talking about putting computers in retirement homes. E-mail and chat were very popular. The younger people (my age and younger, I'm 35) were surprised at the detail and quality of the e-mail they received from grand parents and friends of that generation. Those people still wrote like we all used to write letters in this country. They actually WROTE to you in an E-mail. What was sad I thought was some of the younger kids were frustrated by having to read a real full length letter. You might say they didn't like the big words. I grew up with my grand parents being a regular feature in my family. My mother and I lived with my great grand mother when I was 7. My grand mothers youngest was only seven years older than me (she had her last child at 45). She baby sat for my mom all the time. On top of all of that my grand parents were older than most grand parents of people my age. The point I'm getting at is that I used to get cards and letters from these people and and I remember the quality of the writing that went into them. Things have changed.

[1776]

Do you think our school systems may be part of the problem here??  

[ZOSO]

I would tend to blame our instant gratification culture before I point a finger at the education system.  And I would venture to say that our instant gratification culture is primarily the result of almost constant propaganda convincing us that if only we can collect more stuff, we'll be happy.  When in truth, all we need is each other.

To get back to the subject, we're too busy collecting stuff, or making more money to collect more stuff, to take the time to actually listen to a detailed description of what is going on in someone else's life.  If you can't say it in 10 words or less, they don't have time to listen.

[MrBill]

Midnight

i hive too fey this id no larger a program cinch i stared easing a spelt choker.  
I sure hope I don't have to explain that to anyone.  

Zoso

I think the problem revolves around the media's use of sound bites an children (of all ages) spending way to much time watching the tube.

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OhNooo
smile awhile

[Dinger]

I dunno midnight.  The way I see it, these discussions are only semi-written.  So when I write here, I often use orthography that reflects spoken Amurrican.
There's a reason for this.  Unlike RP English, where the proper tone and number of each syllable is emphasized, Amurrican is a poetic language that eschews a slavish dependence on quality and quantity to produce a smooth, metered speech.  Consider, for example, the Channel 1 taunt:
(RP)

Oxbridge: I am going to kick your ass

This sounds almost ludicrous.  You can almost hear our little friend making even the true dipthong of "your" sound like a false one.  Right, of course, before someone declares a dweeb-hunt on his overeducated butt.  Now consider:

Aggro: I'm gonna KICK yer ass!
(meter: '-- '--)
Here the quantity of the words has been changed to produce to quite satisfying dactyls.  Such a hurried, aggressive meter reflects the mood of our pilot, shot out of his chute and mad as hell.  The emphasis falls on the agent (I) and the action (kick), eloquently reflecting the profound hurt felt by the pilot.  RP English is simply incapable of communicating such profound sentiments without a lengthy and painful circumlocution.
Another way of rendering the taunt is:

Dinger: ah'm gunna kick yer ass!
(meter: -' -' -')
In this case the series of three iambs expresses the killer's cool disdain towards the headstrong challenger.  By scanning the line, the almost emotionless delivery becomes clear and, without doubt, the person to whom the message is addressed begins to tremble in fear.

So the point is, I'm speakin' amurrican, dammit, the most poetic language on the planet!

Dinger
(Still bitter about the introduction to an Italian High School Ancient Greek textbook, which described Amurrican as "grugniti articolati")

[Midnight]

Dinger, It is obvious from your post that you are quite educated in the proper uses of language. Much more so than I am. Very eloquent use of vocabulary also.

I suppose that the instances of hacked language come under the catagories as you have described, however it still makes me wonder why the proper word cannot be used as it is the same amount of typing in most cases.

Thank you kindly for your explanations.

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"Wing up, Get kills, Be happy"

Midnight
13th TAS

[StSanta]

LOL dinger  

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
 
"I am the light at the end of your sorry little tunnel." - A. Eldricht

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 01-20-2001).]

[mrfish]

 

Originally posted by Dinger:
I dunno midnight.  The way I see it, these discussions are only semi-written.  So when I write here, I often use orthography that reflects spoken Amurrican.
There's a reason for this.  Unlike RP English, where the proper tone and number of each syllable is emphasized, Amurrican is a poetic language that eschews a slavish dependence on quality and quantity to produce a smooth, metered speech.  Consider, for example, the Channel 1 taunt:
(RP)

Oxbridge: I am going to kick your ass

This sounds almost ludicrous.  You can almost hear our little friend making even the true dipthong of "your" sound like a false one.  Right, of course, before someone declares a dweeb-hunt on his overeducated butt.  Now consider:

Aggro: I'm gonna KICK yer ass!
(meter: '-- '--)
Here the quantity of the words has been changed to produce to quite satisfying dactyls.  Such a hurried, aggressive meter reflects the mood of our pilot, shot out of his chute and mad as hell.  The emphasis falls on the agent (I) and the action (kick), eloquently reflecting the profound hurt felt by the pilot.  RP English is simply incapable of communicating such profound sentiments without a lengthy and painful circumlocution.
Another way of rendering the taunt is:

Dinger: ah'm gunna kick yer ass!
(meter: -' -' -')
In this case the series of three iambs expresses the killer's cool disdain towards the headstrong challenger.  By scanning the line, the almost emotionless delivery becomes clear and, without doubt, the person to whom the message is addressed begins to tremble in fear.

So the point is, I'm speakin' amurrican, dammit, the most poetic language on the planet!

Dinger
(Still bitter about the introduction to an Italian High School Ancient Greek textbook, which described Amurrican as "grugniti articolati")

wow! that really sums it up - people dont write letters like they write emails - language evolves...if it didnt thou woulds't thypeth thusly.....

[DrSoya]

Dinger, funny (and quite informative for this foreigner) explanation of the use of popular language on channel 1, but Midnight was talking about posting on the HTC forums, and that's quite different.

I have to say I agree with Midnight. Personally, consistant use of popular language instead of proper written English irritates me, mostly because I can't make head or tails of it, English not being my mother tongue.

A difference should be made from the tone of the discussion. In a thread where people are making jokes, taunting each other or such, use of popular language is to be expected, not frowned upon.

But in a discussion on the flawed modeling of .50 guns for example, proper English should be used. After all, we're writing here, not speaking.

There is a time and place for different levels of language. Most "Older" people understand that (note that I'm only 32 myself), but like Midnight, I, too, have noticed that younger (mostly) people often don't.

And it's not limited to Americans, or English Canadians. I see the same thing happening with French Canadians.

Don't misunderstand me: I usually welcome the chance to further my knowledge of English, be it the proper form or any kind of popular dialect, but IMHO popular language has no place in technical discussions on the .50s or which video driver to use with NVidia cards, because popular/hacked language and lazy grammar may harm understanding.

I agree with Zoso on this one. Our world has become more frenzied than the one of our grandfathers; we live in a world that puts the emphasis on having results in the shortest time possible, and it's a world where a lot of people resent wasting time on trivial things such as correct grammar and writing style.

But this is not a whine. Just a mournful observation.

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DrSoya
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
Part of the Northolt Wing (First Polish Fighter Wing)

[This message has been edited by DrSoya (edited 01-20-2001).]

[CavemanJ]

Another thing to consider is the person may be typing in dialect.  This may be how they speak in the "real" world or may just be a part of thier online personna.

One that immediately comes to mind is my use of 'dinnae', which (depending on context) can be "don't/don't know", or "didn't/didn't know".  'Course that's just me showing bits of me Scottish heritage  

[funked]

LOLSANTASIGPIC!!!!