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Offline Casca

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« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2006, 12:27:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl

CHP tested rounds and liked the 10mm but it's too long of a cartridge for small hands to hold on to (mostly female cops) so they went with the .40 as a compromise.  They seem to be having good results after some initial frame/slide cracking issues with their guns.

 


The 10mm was conceived by the venerable Col. Jeff Cooper.

The FBI adopted the 10mm in the early eighties.  There were problems with recoil in the field (possiby gender related?) and they watered down the loads.  The "FBI Loads" or "10 mm lights" were redesigned by S&W into the .40 S&W.

The 10mm is a phenominal round and I'm surprised it always seems to get lost in the shuffle.  The ballistics are impressive and at typical loadings a 10mm produces more energy at 100 yds. than a .45 does at the muzzle.

I usually load 185 grain bullets that I buy by the pound out of barrels in the basement of the Sierra factory a few miles away.  It's about as close to shooting for free as you can get.

The recoil is not at all objectionable (Colt Delta Elite) and the thing tracks dead nuts.  Why this round is not more popular is a mystery to me.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2006, 12:32:38 PM »
the response to the moro was to reissue single action 1873 colt 45's It probly did however influence the thought that the new cartrige for the goverment should be a 45 caliber.   455 webley and such were also researched.

lazs
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storch

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« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2006, 12:53:55 PM »
my just turned 21 yr old daughter has asked me to buy her a defensive firearm.  I'm toying with the idea of a wheel gun for her.  her mom carries a .32 seecamp I'm considering this also because of it's portability and concealability but I don't want to spend $350.00-$400.00.  does anyone have any suggestions she's 5'4" 109lbs. and has fairly large hands for a girl.
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2006, 01:34:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
she's 5'4" 109lbs. and has fairly large hands for a girl.


need more details before i can make a decision. hair/eye colour?
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2006, 05:20:22 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
my just turned 21 yr old daughter has asked me to buy her a defensive firearm.  I'm toying with the idea of a wheel gun for her.  her mom carries a .32 seecamp I'm considering this also because of it's portability and concealability but I don't want to spend $350.00-$400.00.  does anyone have any suggestions she's 5'4" 109lbs. and has fairly large hands for a girl.


I can tell you what I'm doing with my females who are going to carry. After originally considering and nearly buying Ruger SP-101's in .357, I've decided on Taurus 44 Special revolvers with 2" barrels. Simple, affordable, and large caliber without sharp recoil.

Experience has brought me to the point where I feel 357 is the minimum defense caliber. I've seen a couple of people who got the crap beat out of them after they shot someone with a small caliber auto, by the person they shot.

My main objection to the 357 is muzzle flash, muzzle blast, and sharp recoil. It's even worse in a 2" barrel. But with the 44 Special, you have a bullet near twice as heavy, and 0.073" larger in diameter moving at the same speed as a 38 Special, with little more recoil, and no more muzzle blast or muzzle flash. I like revolvers for NDP's (Non Dedicated Personnel) because they are simple, easy to handle, and reliable. I'll take the Taurus revolvers and slick the action up and put in a Wolff trigger spring to lighten the double action pull and make it smoother. Should be excellent for a female who needs a gun but doesn't want to be deep into it like guys like me are.
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Offline wrag

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« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2006, 05:21:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
my just turned 21 yr old daughter has asked me to buy her a defensive firearm.  I'm toying with the idea of a wheel gun for her.  her mom carries a .32 seecamp I'm considering this also because of it's portability and concealability but I don't want to spend $350.00-$400.00.  does anyone have any suggestions she's 5'4" 109lbs. and has fairly large hands for a girl.


Ruger makes an fairly small frame but excellent 357!  Get a quality trigger job from a reputable gunsmith for it and grips that suite her and you should be good to go.   Got several barrel lengths if IIRC.

A friend, with my help and a book by a well known lady, finally got his wife into guns.  We took her to a range where she could fire many different hand weapons.  She went with a wheel gun.  Ruger made.  Got a trigger job done a little later and changed the grips.  She fired it for awhile and last time I saw them she was printing all 6 in the xring.

Packs the needed punch and is EZ for most to operate!

IIRC you can't get the Colt Python anymore.   :cry
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storch

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« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2006, 06:07:02 PM »
I hadn't considered a .44 special but those are very fine points you make.  my wife and both of my daughters  are all excellent shots against paper even with my .357 and .38 cal 2" revolvers. my wife has an H&K USP in .40 S&W that she keeps at home but won't carry anything heavier than the seecamp it is stoked with the glaser safety slugs though.  the small caliber can be augmented by utilizing glaser safety slug other types of frangibles.  they seem to do a credible amount of damage in ballistic gelatin.  they know to shoot two into center of mass and one to the head and like I said they do it mechanically against paper targets with very good accuracy.  my eldest daughter likes the Sig P220 and thats what she carries with her.  but I didn't have to pay for that one, her husband did.  I usually carry a taurus model 650 with a 2" barrel.
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Offline wrag

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« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2006, 06:59:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
I can tell you what I'm doing with my females who are going to carry. After originally considering and nearly buying Ruger SP-101's in .357, I've decided on Taurus 44 Special revolvers with 2" barrels. Simple, affordable, and large caliber without sharp recoil.

Experience has brought me to the point where I feel 357 is the minimum defense caliber. I've seen a couple of people who got the crap beat out of them after they shot someone with a small caliber auto, by the person they shot.

My main objection to the 357 is muzzle flash, muzzle blast, and sharp recoil. It's even worse in a 2" barrel. But with the 44 Special, you have a bullet near twice as heavy, and 0.073" larger in diameter moving at the same speed as a 38 Special, with little more recoil, and no more muzzle blast or muzzle flash. I like revolvers for NDP's (Non Dedicated Personnel) because they are simple, easy to handle, and reliable. I'll take the Taurus revolvers and slick the action up and put in a Wolff trigger spring to lighten the double action pull and make it smoother. Should be excellent for a female who needs a gun but doesn't want to be deep into it like guys like me are.


Hmmm.......

A little story re 44 special.

Fella buy charter arms bulldog in 44 special.

Fella buy 44 special ammo.

Fella take charter arms bulldog shooting.

Fella shoot many cans and stuff happy happy fella.   :D

Fella shoot a near by tree stump with charter arms bulldog.

Fella say big loud OW!  :huh







































Fella got BIG bruise on thigh from 44 special bullet that hit tree stump and come back to  fella's thigh.  :cry

Fella NOT happy happy :confused:
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 07:09:16 PM by wrag »
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

Offline wrag

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« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2006, 07:05:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
I hadn't considered a .44 special but those are very fine points you make.  my wife and both of my daughters  are all excellent shots against paper even with my .357 and .38 cal 2" revolvers. my wife has an H&K USP in .40 S&W that she keeps at home but won't carry anything heavier than the seecamp it is stoked with the glaser safety slugs though.  the small caliber can be augmented by utilizing glaser safety slug other types of frangibles.  they seem to do a credible amount of damage in ballistic gelatin.  they know to shoot two into center of mass and one to the head and like I said they do it mechanically against paper targets with very good accuracy.  my eldest daughter likes the Sig P220 and thats what she carries with her.  but I didn't have to pay for that one, her husband did.  I usually carry a taurus model 650 with a 2" barrel.


Word I got was, all in all, females generally have slightly better eye hand coordination then males.

Also word is generally females have slightly faster reflexs then males.

Or at least that is what the sceintific community claims after much testing?

Good thing men are stronger?

Cause IMHO men are certainly NOT meaner!

Maybe we should be glade that women are generally nice people and the ones that seem rabid also seem to not like guns?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 07:12:41 PM by wrag »
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It's been said we have three brains, one cobbled on top of the next. The stem is first, the reptilian brain; then the mammalian cerebellum; finally the over developed cerebral cortex.  They don't work together in awfully good harmony - hence ax murders, mobs, and socialism.

storch

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« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2006, 08:38:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wrag


Good thing men are stronger?

Cause IMHO men are certainly NOT meaner!

Maybe we should be glade that women are generally nice people and the ones that seem rabid also seem to not like guns?
:lol  how true
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Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2006, 10:11:25 PM »
ok here is a hypothetical question for you gun lovers....




If you were being charged by a full grown grizzley, and you only had a crappy 9mm pistol with say, 15 rounds, what part of the bear would you shoot at.  this is supposing you have a seperation of 30yrds and no chance of running or evading.



I think i would shoot him in the head as many times as possible.  hoping to hit eyes/mouth/throat.



i dont have a clue though, being a brit.


so what should i aim for?
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Offline eagl

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« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2006, 10:24:36 PM »
A lucky headshot is probably the only way you'd get a grizzly with a 9mm.  Most large bears have a thick fat layer most of the year that would stop most 9mm rounds before they penetrated far enough to do serious damage.  A FMJ round might get deep enough but it would still take a lucky shot no matter where you hit it.

Assuming I have time to aim, I'd probably go for the head but also aim a couple at the chest region on the off chance that I'll nick something important and it'll bleed out before it has a chance to crush my skull completely.  But I wouldn't really expect any good or quick results.

It's sort of like asking "I've fallen out of an airplane at 50,000 ft and I have with me 30 sq ft of cloth.  Should I wrap the cloth around me to keep from freezing to death, or use the time I have left to use my shoelaces and belt to try to fashion a parachute out of the cloth".  It's not exactly a situation you can plan on winning.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 10:28:12 PM by eagl »
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2006, 10:34:39 PM »
Joint Combat Pistol (JCP)

Quote
The US Special Operations Command [USSOCOM] issued a solicitation in August 2005 to obtain commercially available non-developmental item (NDI) Joint Combat Pistol (JCP) system, Caliber .45 (ACP). The Program (which absorbed an earlier Future Handgun System program) will use full and open competition to fulfill the JCP requirement. The JCP will be delivered in accordance with specification entitled "Performance Specification Joint Combat Pistol" to be provided with issuance of the solicitation. Two configurations of the pistol will be required. One configuration will have no external safety and the other configuration will have an external safety.

The Combat Pistol System consists of: a Caliber .45 pistol and its ancillary equipment including: Magazines (standard and high-capacity); Suppressor Attachment Kit for operation of the pistol with and without sound suppressor; Holster; Magazine Holder (standard and high-capacity); Cleaning Kit; and Operator's Manual.

The contract type will be an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) issuing Firm-Fixed Price (FFP) delivery orders. The contract period of performance shall be Five (5)years with an option to extend for an additional Five (5) years. The Minimum Quantity is 24 each Engineering Test Units (ETU's), 12 each with external manual safety and 12 each without external manual safety. The estimated Maximum quantities are: 45,000 no external safety JCP configuration and 600,000 JCP with the external safety configuration;


That "pop" sound you heard was the US military pulling it's cranium out of it's posterior. So long, 9mm sissy round!



....and as for the Grizzly, take a shooting stance, extend your gun arm/hand and aim for the nose/mouth area. Shoot all but one round quickly. If the bear doesn't stop, use the last round on your own temple. It won't hurt nearly as much that way.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2006, 10:43:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by B@tfinkV
ok here is a hypothetical question for you gun lovers....




If you were being charged by a full grown grizzley, and you only had a crappy 9mm pistol with say, 15 rounds, what part of the bear would you shoot at.  this is supposing you have a seperation of 30yrds and no chance of running or evading.



I think i would shoot him in the head as many times as possible.  hoping to hit eyes/mouth/throat.



i dont have a clue though, being a brit.


so what should i aim for?


The eyeballs. As Jeff Cooper once said, "If a man is going to carry one of those sub caliber weapons, he'd do well to practice hitting the eye sockets. The proper drill for this is to practice until you regularly hit bouncing ping pong balls at 7-10 yards about 85% of the time, because thats about the size and distance of your only valid target area."

The guys who guide hunts usually carry a LARGE caliber carbine (45-70, 480 Ruger, 50 Alaskan) AND a relatively light and short revlolver chambered in at least 44 Magnum (with Garret loads or something like it), and often 445 SuperMag or 454 Casull. My personal favorite 44 Magnum load for bear and boar is a 295 grain hardcast Keith style bullet at around 1375 feet per second. My 6" Dan Wesson doesn't really even kick with it. It'll go through both shoulders of a boar at 50 yards.
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Offline B@tfinkV

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« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2006, 10:49:11 PM »
ok so head shots and eyes it is then, duly noted :D


wonder if i'll ever find a bear in the suburban lanscape or west londpn.


or a handgun for that matter :D
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