Author Topic: Maps and "smoothing"? (Read 920 times)

Dantoo · « **on:** February 03, 2006, 10:53:27 PM »

Just a note and request (if it's possible) to sea map makers. The grass areas on a field in sea maps always seem to be minefields. HTC in their infinite and inscrutable wisdom, make pizzy little rearm pads that require at least some driving over grass areas to use them.

Driving over grass on these maps in particular aircraft is near impossible. Grab an Il2 and drive about on the grass at a fin-rus airfield for a sample. Can map makers apply a surface "smoothing" to sea maps at airfields?

We lost half our squad to a rearming nightmare this frame. It discourages players when this stuff happens. It's not just a simple lack of skill thing - tho of course it's possible to survive for the very experienced amongst us, it's about encouraging newer folk to participate.

Dantoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 04, 2006, 01:22:22 PM »

May as well reply to my own post

After speaking to a map maker - it appears its fundamental. You have to put down "grass tiles" at each airport by hand rather than let the script fill the map for you automatically. It seems that the base "tile" can be 'rock' and just look to us like grass. No simple answer then

68falcon · « **Reply #2 on:** February 04, 2006, 02:41:27 PM »

Dantoo you are not being ignored. This has been sent to the Terrain Team;)

kanttori · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2006, 04:30:26 PM »

Dantoo, do you remember what field it was? I am going to check this error!

Dantoo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:28:43 AM »

Hi Kantorri,

The problems occurred at A5 northern end in particular - spawn an Il2 to the SW and taxi to the nearby rearm pad.

Now having just done this a couple of times to make certain I wasn't about to lead you astray, I noted a few things:

Most (maybe all) the problem is Il2 related and not so much the map. The trees being so close to the rearm pad there force you into tight manouvres that exaggerate the problem as you try to return to the runway. I don't think the surface texture is any different at this field to the others.

HTC's modelling of the IL2 tailwheel bounce is highly suspect and I cannot imagine that Soviet airfields were acres of smooth concrete. Strangely, the faster you taxi about the less problem there is. I will have the whole squad out doing high speed taxi practice this week

My post about smoothing was aimed at a wider response than just this map. It was a request to future map makers to take this into account. We had a scenario a couple of years back that used the Sicily map in AH1. If you touched the grass it would bodily throw the plane fully 10 feet into the air! It was a wild ride getting refuelled on that one! The sight of half a dozen wildly leaping 109's still sits in my memory

It's dissapointing to have a good start to an event, then have these blasted bugs steal away your enjoyment. BTW, it wasn't all newbies that ended on their noses in what became a weird graveyard of Il2s - Fariz isn't a TOTAL noob

If you are issued with Il2s next week - get the lads out and practice rearming first - or appeal to management to come up with a system that "levels the playing field".

Dux · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2006, 08:08:40 AM »

Heya Dantoo,
Sorry about the mishaps that your squad had the other night. Unfortunately, there is really not anything the mapmakers can do to fix this...

A. Tile placement was a factor in AH1 maps, but AH2 does not work that way anymore, so the map advice you were given is out-of-date.

B. Like you say, it sounds like an IL-2 modelling problem, and therefore out of our control, unfortunately.

I would agree that the rearm setup is awkward. Far too many times I've seen experienced pilots taxi onto the pad, and not be able to exit with hitting a structure. Commands for "groundcrew assist" would be most welcome... help pushing the plane back, turning the tail, etc.

68falcon · « **Reply #6 on:** February 05, 2006, 10:04:31 AM »

Dantoo if you post the tail wheel bounce problem in the AH2 Bug reports thread Hitech will take a look at it

Dantoo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:35:12 PM »

Falcon I promised myself never to post there again but it is worth a try.
Seriously grab an Il2 and taxy around as per the instruction I posted earlier.
Its a horror. I think it can be beaten by taxying faster but it's going to be a problem in this FSO and it could be a real stinker in the upcoming scenario if rearming will be necessary.

That would suck. Usually the rules there allow you to land and respawn in the latter events which would be ok.

Trikky · « **Reply #8 on:** February 05, 2006, 01:13:17 PM »

daddog · « **Reply #9 on:** February 05, 2006, 05:21:32 PM »

Falcon, I think that if anyone else has a mishap due to this in Friday Squad Ops they should be allowed to reup. Maybe run this by Nef/Skernsk and the Setup CM.

I would hate to see someone else have their Friday night screwed up due to something out of our control, but we can at least make allowences.

My two cents.

Dux · « **Reply #10 on:** February 05, 2006, 09:21:15 PM »

I did a bit of testing on this today, and the IL-2 behaves this way on all maps.

FWIW though, it can be minimized by using good piloting discipline... Roll out the full length of the runway, use the taxiways, that's why they are there. So it takes a little longer.

The picture above says it perfectly... there is no reason those IL-2s on the grass had to be that far off the tarmac. The IL-2s on the taxiway are fine.

68falcon · « **Reply #11 on:** February 05, 2006, 09:59:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by daddog
Falcon, I think that if anyone else has a mishap due to this in Friday Squad Ops they should be allowed to reup. Maybe run this by Nef/Skernsk and the Setup CM.

I would hate to see someone else have their Friday night screwed up due to something out of our control, but we can at least make allowences.

My two cents.

We have established it is not a map problem. Dux has tested and found the plane reacts on all maps as it does here. The next step is to find if it is a modeling problem. When and if we establish that there is a modeling problem then we will decide on steps to be taken

Dantoo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2006, 12:47:56 AM »

Quote

Roll out the full length of the runway, use the taxiways, that's why they are there. So it takes a little longe

Dux, respectfully, that is just not the least bit helpful and I even take some umbrage at it. I will post film (if I can figure out how to) that shows up this nonsense.

You make it sound like that the people involved were cowboys. Just not so. They did use the maximum amount of pavement possible. You have to clip some grass somewhere to rearm and then return to the runway. You do at least concede it's a matter of minimising it, but the lecture on piloting is not needed.

Ok I've isolated the film of Fariz rearming. How do I get it so I can post it so you can see the film and that this isn't froth in the glass? Watch the film then tell me that this isn't going to be a problem over the next 2 weeks and then in the "event". I'll email it to anybody that can put it up. At worst you can have a laugh at Fariz (I do this all the time and am willing to share)

Dux · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2006, 07:55:25 AM »

Dantoo, umbrage need not be taken... I'm not out to belittle anyone. I know that incident has frustrated you, and I'm sorry that I'm not able to tell you whatever it is you want to hear. If it were a fundamental terrain-building mistake like you first said, then I would be able to do something about it. All I can do is offer advice on technique.

With all respect, what is a film going to show that I haven't already seen? I am not disputing the problem of the tailwheel/grass bounce. That is not something we can fix. I'm only suggesting a tactic that we can all use in the meantime, that is all. I can just as easily show you a film where an IL-2 stays on the taxiway and successfully rearms. Repeatedly.

Tell me... are you guys using differential braking when taxiing? The only reason that I can tell that would be making you all turn such wide corners is that you're using only rudder to turn.

Like I said, I'm just trying to help... if you still think I'm "lecturing" I'll shutup now.

skernsk · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2006, 08:55:45 AM »

If you are upset and Dux please don't post. His team looked at the map, his team found the problem - it is NOT a terrain issue. In fact they checked several terrains.

They were however, able to land, taxi and re-arm using the instructions Dux posted - that is why he did post them.

Dantoo and all FSO players, the CM team will be in contact with HTC regarding the IL-2. We'll be in touch after that.