Author Topic: Danish Embassy burns (Read 2506 times)

Slash27 · « **Reply #75 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:34:23 AM »

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Originally posted by lada
huge ?

I bet all my money, that when US invaded Iraq there were 10x more people in the streets all around the world.

What does a $1.83 American really get you in your country?

Slash27 · « **Reply #76 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:35:10 AM »

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Originally posted by LePaul

We should immediately ship all ACLU staff to the mideast so they can sue these people senseless.

deSelys · « **Reply #77 on:** February 06, 2006, 10:56:01 AM »

The way I see it, religious people should only take care of the people following the same religion. If a moslem drinks beer, then other moslems may put him straight. If a christian thinks that evolutionism is more logical than creationism, then other christians may brainwash him about the unequivocal truth of creationsism (using ID to lure him into their trap).

If I, non-moslem and non-christian, decide to draw Mahomet and JC going at it in a cheap motel room, it's my F.....G right (or my F.....G problem if you prefer). For both religions, I'm already damned. So what difference will make a little drawing? The fact that you're judging the drawing funny, bad taste or exciting (not that there's anything wrong with that) doesn't matter.

I stand completely behind the danes and I'm p....d off big time with the catholic church siding with the moslems. They whine that the 'sacred' isn't respected anymore in Europe. Well, respect can't be forced, it must be earned. If the 'sacred' (all religions included) hadn't such a violent of unjust history, the situation might be different.

On a side note, I can see that the 'holy' Seagoon doesn't miss an opportunity to attack the 'evil islam'. While I'm baffled by the amount of violences committed because of some silly drawings, this kind of reaction is sadly ironic. First, the quran (spelling) states that moslems can't attack churchs from other religions. This is somewhat contradictory with his theory that Islam is intolerant.
The way I see it, fundamentalist Islam is certainly gaining 'votes' upon the tolerant, 'lukewarm' way to follow this religion. One could advance that Islam has now reached the same point than the catholic church at the high times of the Inquisition.
This put christians on a weak footing to point fingers at the violences committed in the name of allah.

Elfie · « **Reply #78 on:** February 06, 2006, 04:17:24 PM »

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On a side note, I can see that the 'holy' Seagoon doesn't miss an opportunity to attack the 'evil islam'.

Seagoon is respected on this board by most (including myself), not because of his views on his own religion, but because he is always polite and is knowledgeable about the subjects he posts about. He never attacks folks for their views, nor does he attack those that attack him.

That said....Seagoon most likely has a far better fundamental understanding of Islam than the rest of us on this board combined. He actually studied Islam (before converting to Christianity) and was seriously considering joining Islam.

Seagoon's posts in this thread are consistant with his other posts on Islam.

weaselsan · « **Reply #79 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:38:10 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
It's a shame that more people here aren't able to elevate 'spirited discussions' beyond emotional language or arguing around a hub of moral superiority.

If you really want to make sense of anything, you have take the opposite side of a debate or argument. Research it and debate it with as much vigor as possible. It's hard to do, but without that mindset, you'll forever be just a pawn.

OK....I just sawed my neighbors head of with a knife....I still don't understand Islam.....it just made me ill...help me understand oh wise one.

Rolex · « **Reply #80 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:47:28 PM »

Okay, I'll play devil's advocate here and try to point out the reasons for the uproar against the drawings. Saying, "Get over it, it's just a cartoon," fits western sense of sarcasm nicely, but it's not 'just a cartoon' to the those targeted.

1. Western cultures (that means Europe and America) have a history of sarcasm, cynicism and caricature in literature, politics and religion. Cultures where Islam prevails and Eastern cultures do not have such a history, or use cynicism or sarcasm in their daily life.

2. Religion is serious to Muslims and depicting dieties in drawings is considered blasphemy. There are no religious paintings or caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad on the walls of mosques or in homes.

3. Displaying Muhammad with a bomb turban is an extraordinarily offensive thing to depict to every Muslim - including the overwhelming mass of quiet, peaceful, non-militant Muslims. It's hard to come up with an act that would evoke equivalent personal emotion or outrage to a western person. Perhaps a drawing of your mother engaged in beastiality? All Christian clergyman engaged in homosexual acts with children? Would your local newspaper print it and defend it as freedom of press?

4. Even the most moderate, apolitical Muslim could believe from these offensive political drawings that the west is intent on destroying their religion and them, not just those with radical political beliefs.

5. Every major Islamic organization and group has denounced the violence. Maybe the west should thoughtfully consider why these drawings brought people into the streets, instead of shrugging it off as something Muslims should 'get over.'

So there's a devil's advocate view. Would the Danish press print a political caricature of Queen Margrethe II engaged in beastiality and defend it as a press freedom?

Urchin · « **Reply #81 on:** February 06, 2006, 06:53:15 PM »

Probably not, but I don't think they'd burn the Syrian embassy down.

xrtoronto · « **Reply #82 on:** February 06, 2006, 07:20:42 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
Would the Danish press print a political caricature of Queen Margrethe II engaged in beastiality and defend it as a press freedom?

The difference between putting a picture of the Queen in an offensive situation and that of the Danish cartoons portraying the muslim prophet with a bomb is the fact that many of those suicide bombers are "rewarded" with promises of x number of virgins etc. for carrying out these bombings/hijackings. The murders and terror that they perpetuate is embedded in their religion.

If the Queen or any other political or religious person was proven to have been involved in stuff like that, well, as far as I am concerned it is open season to print it...anything and everything.

Rolex · « **Reply #83 on:** February 06, 2006, 08:07:17 PM »

"The murders and terror that they perpetuate is embedded in their religion."

Who are 'they?'

Are you sure it isn't embedded into the minds of those who kill themselves for their perceived purpose by men for political purpose, and not by their religion?

Are they sacrificing (in their view) themselves for religion or for political reasons?

Would there be terrorist bombings anywhere if they were left alone to live their lives as they wanted without western influence to change their religion, culture and political circumstances?

Do they want to control your life and world? Do you want to control theirs?

Is the west not fighting to resist the supposed 'threat' of Islam as vigorously as Islam is resisting the supposed 'threat' of western culture?

Masherbrum · « **Reply #84 on:** February 06, 2006, 08:34:49 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
"The murders and terror that they perpetuate is embedded in their religion."

Who are 'they?'

Are you sure it isn't embedded into the minds of those who kill themselves for their perceived purpose by men for political purpose, and not by their religion?

Are they sacrificing (in their view) themselves for religion or for political reasons?

Would there be terrorist bombings anywhere if they were left alone to live their lives as they wanted without western influence to change their religion, culture and political circumstances?

Do they want to control your life and world? Do you want to control theirs?

Is the west not fighting to resist the supposed 'threat' of Islam as vigorously as Islam is resisting the supposed 'threat' of western culture?

They = Extremeists who are beheading civilians of all nationalities, blowing up Iraqi's, etc.

Karaya

Toad · « **Reply #85 on:** February 06, 2006, 08:52:49 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
It's hard to come up with an act that would evoke equivalent personal emotion or outrage to a western person.

I guess Chris Ofili's Holy Virgin Mary at the Brooklyn Art Museum should have caused Catholic rioting the world over.

It would be perfectly understandably for Catholics to burn embassies and generally raise a revolt over something that offensive.

But for some reason they didn't. The must not take their religion seriously.

Rolex · « **Reply #86 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:10:51 PM »

Or, Muslims must take their religion more seriously than we think? Is that possible?

There seem to be alot of first-time rioters from this incident. They haven't beheaded anyone. Is it because they just don't get our humor, or we don't get it that they don't have a sense of humor about their religion?

Urchin · « **Reply #87 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:19:49 PM »

Personally, I couldn't care less about their religion.

If I were president, there would be planes flying over all Muslim countries dropping aerosol bombs full of pigs blood.

My country = my laws.

Their ****hole = their laws.

They try to impose their laws on me, I hope my President imposes his foot up their ass.

Rolex · « **Reply #88 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:41:19 PM »

I can imagine alot of young men in the middle east hearing similar words from those intent on recruiting would-be insurgents. Can you?

Just for sake of argument, transpose the players and see how it fits.

Toad · « **Reply #89 on:** February 06, 2006, 09:48:25 PM »

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Originally posted by Rolex
Or, Muslims must take their religion more seriously than we think? Is that possible?

I imagine in the Dark Ages, Catholics probably would have rioted over that. Is it possible Muslim society hasn't progressed beyond a Dark Ages attitude?

In the Dark Ages, there probably would have been alot of first-time rioters from this incident. They probably wouldn't beheaded anyone; just speared them. Maybe those Catholics didn't have our sense of humor or maybe they just wouldn't have had a sense of humor about their religion back then?