Author Topic: how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?  (Read 863 times)

Offline SkevJ

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 45
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« on: February 04, 2006, 11:07:54 AM »
This plane had the most success in the WWII campaign. So how come its not rewarded with success instead it has to be the worst plane in the group?

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2006, 11:16:21 AM »
So, going by your logic (if I understand you correctly), if we would ever get Brewster Model 239 it should be as fast as Me-262 and turn like a Pitts Special because it had so much success in the war (exchange ratio of 26:1)?
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Pooface

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2520
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2006, 11:19:59 AM »
revor, the reason the p40 had so much success was due to the fact it was flown by excellent pilots, during the first stages of the war, against inferior planes. thats why it racked up such a kill tally. and, the p40 is an amazing plane if you know what you're doing.


i regularly outturn spit16's in mine. its just a question of experience

Offline agent 009

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2006, 01:49:28 PM »
XPQ P-40, hope I got that right, was quite a plane. Cleaned up aerodynamics, top speed 422. still not good as Stang. That's why it probably wasn't mass produced.

Offline Speed55

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1263
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2006, 02:51:29 PM »
I saw a program on the AVG.
They said they normally flew in together at about 16k, and pounced down on there japanese enemies.
I remember one pilot specifically saying that they would never turn with them, because they couldn't,  but would use  superior speed and acceleration to take them out.
I found that in the E model you can turn relatively well, and when fighting certain early to mid war planes I have no problems taking them out.  Now when fighting late war planes, you have to be really careful because they will either turn better, accelerate better, have better top end, or all three.
Not to mention that you usually will be the target of all, because your seen as an easy kill.
"The lord loves a hangin', that's why he gave us necks." - Ren & Stimpy

Ingame- Ozone

Offline Squire

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7683
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2006, 08:45:56 PM »
"Most success in the WW2 campaign" would be over stating it, but it did do well in many theaters, and it has an interesting history.

Read up on WW2, and you will find the answers.
Warloc
Friday Squad Ops CM Team
1841 Squadron Fleet Air Arm
Aces High since Tour 24

Offline bagrat

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1936
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2006, 12:47:36 AM »
P-40 still seems to me as a very decent palne, but in "SPIT 16 LA's High" it only seems inferior.
Last post by bagrat - The last thing you'll see before your thread dies since 2005.

Offline Ghosth

  • AH Training Corps (retired)
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8497
      • http://332nd.org
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2006, 07:01:23 AM »
P40 was out classed in every arena it flew in with the possible exceptoin of Chenaults AVG group.

And I suspect if we were able to go back in time and look at those planes. You'd find they had stripped most of the extra weight possible out of them. Chenault was no fool, he knew men, and he knew planes, and how to get the most out of both.

P40 was a good  design that never really had enough horsepower to do the job it needed to do. And unlike the D pony, never got upgraded with a big enough engine.

Take out the frills and give it more power and you'd have seen it go from a mediocre performer to a star much like the pony did.

Offline agent 009

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2006, 03:25:46 PM »
Disagree. P-40 got same merlin as Pony.

Offline gripen

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1914
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2006, 03:37:09 PM »
The V-1650-1 (P-40F) was a single stage engine while all Merlin engined Mustangs got two stage Merlins.

gripen

Offline agent 009

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2006, 03:47:45 PM »
Nah, Mustang C had 1650 too.

Curtis P-40F

The Curtis P-40 was introduced in the late 1930's , becoming the first aircraft to see large scale production powered by an Allison V-1710 engine.  Even as it entered service, however, it was being eclipsed by contemporary German and British aircraft.   Its 350 mph speed at 12,000 ft put the P-40 at a serious disadvantage, thus the P-40 was primarily exported.  In order to achieve more performance, P-40 designer Don Berlin asked to have the P-40 fitted with two-stage Merlin engines.  The two-stage engines were in demand for more critical applications, but the Packard-built V-1650-1 Merlin was fitted to the plane, becoming the P-40F (P-40L's used the same engine).

The French ordered a large number of planes, but before they could be delivered Germany had occupied France.  The planes were redirected to the British, who became the first to use the planes in combat.  The planes lacked sufficient armor plating and self-sealing fuel tanks since these were not specified by the French.  The planes were could not challenge the German aircraft in Europe, but they were found to perform very well in North Africa where they performed well against both the Italian Air Force and the Luftwaffe.

The P-40 is perhaps remembered best as the plane of General Claire Chennault's famous "Flying Tigers" American Volunteer Group (AVG).  The small AVG group racked up an incredible kill ratio against the Japanese in China.  The AVG was only in existence for eight months, yet in that time they scored an incredible 286 kills with no more than 80 AVG pilots at any given time.  In July 1942 the AVG became the twenty-third fighter group of the USAAF.

During the attack on Pearl Harbor, a few P-40C's were able to get airborne and kill some of the attacking Japanese planes.  While obsolete by 1941/1942 standards, this was the best fighter the Air Corps had in service at the time.  Production ended in November 1944.

Offline agent 009

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2006, 03:51:24 PM »
OK I get it 1650 3 was 1st 2 speeder. Still a merlin though in P-40 F.

68
V-1650-3 Mustang III, P-51B
P-51C 1670/3000/SL
1700/3000/6400
1490/3000/19,400 Packard built, first Packard two-speed two-stage engines
69
V-1650-7 Mustang III/IV
P-51C/D/F/K 1670/3000/SL
1700/3000/6400
1490/3000/19,400

Offline gripen

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1914
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2006, 03:55:49 PM »
AFAIK no any Mustang got single stage Merlin:

P-51B got V-1650-3 or V-1650-7
P-51C same engines B
P-51D got mostly V-1650-7 but some planes got V-1650-9 or V-1650-3.
P-51K same engines D
P-51H got V-1650-9

gripen

Offline agent 009

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2006, 03:57:07 PM »
Just said that.

My neighbor said you had to shift the supercharger on the P-40 by hand. hated it. & he dove it & had to stand with all his weight on one side to keep it straight.

Offline agent 009

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 368
how come the P40 wasnt made as an elite plane?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2006, 04:01:53 PM »
Curtiss XP-40Q 'Warhawk'  

Description
  Manufacturer: Curtiss

 
 
  Base model: P-40
  Designation: XP-40
  Version: Q
  Nickname: Warhawk
  Designation System: U.S. Air Force
  Designation Period: 1925-1947
  Basic role: Pursuit
  Status: Experimental


Specifications
  Length: 33' 4" 10.1 m
  Wingspan: 37' 4" 11.3 m


Propulsion   No. of Engines: 1
  Powerplant: Allison V-1710-121
  Horsepower (each): 1425


Performance