Author Topic: Did 190A-5/A-6 ever use max boost 1.68 ata in combat (Read 1129 times)

1K3 · « **on:** February 06, 2006, 09:29:24 PM »

Did 190A-5/A-6 ever use max boost 1.68 ata in combat?

I just installed Il-2 and other expantion packs and update to 4.02. I checked their UBI STURMOVIK forums and many people are demanding for 1.68 ata max boost for their Fw-190A-5 and A-6s.

Crumpp · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2006, 11:05:19 PM »

I have not found any evidence. The presence of Erhöhte Noleistung für Jager can be identified by the presence of a light yellow circle on the left hand side back corner of the MG cover below and behind the waffengebers.

Now they did have C3-Einsptritzung which is a different system used only on bombenflugzeugen and Schlachtflugzeugen below 1Km.

All the best,

Crumpp

Sable · « **Reply #2 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:30:34 AM »

Do you have any performance or power charts for these c3-einspritzung equipped schlacht Antons? Also what units would have employed them? SKG10? 10/JG26? Was reading up on early Typhoon ops today and it piqued my curiosity.

Bruno · « **Reply #3 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:36:56 AM »

'C-3 injection' and 'Erhöhte Notliestung' are basically the same but 'C3-Einsptritzung' was used with the lower blower stage only for Jabos. The A-5 was tested for 'C-3 injection' in '43.

The high altitude gear is proved more difficult but on 20.01.44 BMW cleared the usage for the 'the high blower stage for all 190s'.

'Erhöhte Notliestung' was limited to 10 minutes for the high blower stage IIRC and according to the A8 handbook dated Feb '44 the low blower stage was still unlimited: 'as long as an emergency lasts' I don't know if that ever changed.

Fuel consumption was high, 840l/h IIRC...

How many A-5 / A-6s were eventually fitted and cleared I have no idea...

Angus · « **Reply #4 on:** February 07, 2006, 11:55:26 AM »

840 l/h?????????
That's whooping.
Wonder what the DB or RR, or P&W engines would do at panic boost though, maybe not far off this.

Bruno · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:12:18 PM »

DB and P & W both went towards water injection. With C3 / Erhöhte Notliestung you are injecting fuel into the eye of the SC. As such it stands to reason that fuel consumption would be high. But I am not at home to confirm the 840l/h so don't hold me to it...

Crumpp · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2006, 06:43:45 PM »

Quote

'as long as an emergency lasts'

It was reduced to 10 minutes as well in July 44.

All the best,

Crumpp

Crumpp · « **Reply #7 on:** February 07, 2006, 06:51:24 PM »

Quote

The high altitude gear is proved more difficult but on 20.01.44 BMW cleared the usage for the 'the high blower stage for all 190s'.

The systems were similar in operation but had different injection rates and of course different consumption rates as well.

It appears to have come out in kit form initially and became standard by being incorporated on all serial production BMW801D2 motors in July 1944.

Both system simply gave better performance than the Alkohol-Einspritzung systems on the BMW801 series and did not require the weight of a seperate anti-knock agent tank.

Your consumption rate is correct, BTW.

All the best,

Crumpp

Crumpp · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2006, 11:02:09 PM »

Quote

Do you have any performance or power charts for these c3-einspritzung equipped schlacht Antons?

Yes. They could hit around 580kph TAS with racks mounted and empty.

Not bad for a 1943 attack plane.

These would be in use with units like SKG 10 and 10/JG26. IIRC they gave the RAF fits with their low level raids as the RAF had very few aircraft which could catch them in level flight.

All the best,

Crumpp

1K3 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2006, 07:47:44 PM »

Oleg's Il-2FB/AEP/PF just released v4.03, with their Fw-190A-5's boost maxed all the way to 1.65 ata.

i doubyt they used that kind of boost in east and west front in numbers lol

Crumpp · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2006, 07:50:02 PM »

Quote

Oleg's Il-2FB/AEP/PF just released v4.03, with their Fw-190A-5's boost maxed all the way to 1.65 ata.

It would be realistic for ground attack variants below 1 KM only.

elkaskone · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2006, 08:12:37 AM »

A Document with 1,65ata for FW190A5, looks like the Fighterversion!

http://img139.potato.com/img.php?loc=loc153&image=1e31d_FW190A5_1,65ata.jpg

Crumpp · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:54:34 AM »

It is for a fighter but its a testing prototype only. You have a graph for the testing of Erhöhte Notleistung für Jäger not the clearence for operational use.

Two different systems with different operation:

C3- Einspritzung -

Erhöhte Notleistung für Jäger -

Quote

Crumpp says speaking of Erhöhte Notleistung für Jäger:
It appears to have come out in kit form initially and became standard by being incorporated on all serial production BMW801D2 motors in July 1944.

It does not appear in quantity until after July 1944 AFAIK.

This is still a rather largely unknown area of FW190 history. The period between testing and serial adoption is rather longer than usual. Given the fact there are no actual orders specifying it's use, lack of photographic evidence of installation in view of specific marking instructions, and a lack of anecdotal evidence I have to conclude it's use was not widespread before the summer of 1944. I tend to think it followed a similar path to the Bf-109's MW adoption.

Now extensive testing of using both Erhöhte Notleistung für Jäger and GM-1 was conducted during this time. It was approved for use but due to ice crystal formation limited too injection rates of 540kg/hr and 150kg/hr at 2300U/min. That is in Feb 1944 clearence was granted.

C3-Einspritzung was adopted and used however and it's instructions appear in the August 1943 Flugzeug-Handbuch with a time limit of "as long as the emergency last's". This was changed to 10 minutes in July 1944.

All the best,

Crumpp

Kweassa · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2006, 02:17:21 PM »

On a side note..

...one thing I hate most about IL-2/FB is that the developers release additional plane types without any kind of discipline towards historical representation or significancy.

Planes that are hardly "WW2 material".. planes that were in prototype or pre-production stages... planes that were very rare... etc etc.. The end result is 90%+ of MP rooms one might find are full of screwed up planesets with no regard to any kind of historical balancing whatsoever.

It just sucks.

elkaskone · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2006, 02:39:44 PM »

Hmm, are you sure only Prototype for the 1943 1,65 ata fighter-version and not one little Productionline for that type in 1943?

I have my main Info. from this German Report about "Leistungssteigerung des BMW801D2" and i think its nearly your point of view!