Reasonable doubt

[Naso]

Derek Rocco Barnabei has been murdered tonight, probably for electoral reasons.  

I dont want to dig if he was guilty or not, but the strange thinks happened to the evidences, before the DNA test, are'nt good for a reasonable doubt, and for change the death in life sentence, giving time to understand?

"Dead man walking", beautiful movie, it show in strong way the feelings to be in the "Dead man" shoes.

Killing the killer is'nt becoming killer yourself?

Somethink to think about.

Next time cut be you.

[Maverick]

   
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 09-15-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 09-15-2000).]

[miko2d]

   

Originally posted by Naso:

Killing the killer is'nt becoming killer yourself?

 Naso, in English a word "killer" does not have a negative connotation. It's a perfectly neutral word.
 I assume you did not use it correctly in your question rather then intentionally tried to play word tricks.
 How about that version:

Killing a murderer isn't becoming a murderer yourself?

 No, just a killer. What's wrong with that?

 Murder is bad, killing is ... killing. Just an unpleasant act for a normal person. We kill pesky insects, germs, cattle, poultry and convicted criminals.
 Murderers murder innocent people intentionally or through criminal neglect.

 The Commandment says "Do not murder", not "Do not kill".

miko

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 09-15-2000).]

[mietla]

 

Originally posted by Maverick:
   

Maverick,
I don't get you point, what makes you sick?

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by Naso:

"Dead man walking", beautiful movie, it show in strong way the feelings to be in the "Dead man" shoes.

Naso, seen any good movies that really make you feel like you were in the victim's shoes?

Maybe you could get an usher to beat you unconscious while it was simultaneously happening on the screen.

Or seen one that maybe makes you feel like you were in the shoes of the parents of the victim?

Got any kids yourself yet?

I haven't read enough about both sides of the Barnabei case to comment.

But the "death penalty" itself doesn't bother me a bit.

[1776]

Death penalty=post natal abortion

The liberal mind can grasp that

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by mietla:
Maverick,
I don't get you point, what makes you sick?

Your post does. It was drivel. The DNA test evidence CONFIRMED his guilt. Now this "person" will never hurt anyone. The world is a better place without him.

Mav

[mietla]

Maverick,

That was not my post.

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by mietla:
Maverick,

That was not my post.

You're right. My apologies. Apply all of the above to Naso's post.  

Mav

[Toad]

OZ, I like that!

Is it original and can I use it too?  

[mietla]

No problme, Maverick. Incidentally I agree with your position.

[Naso]

Miko, thanks for your correction, i did'nt knew this subtile difference, i am not so good in english, sorry.

Kill or murder, the difference is in the contest, right?

But i disagree deeply with YOUR version of the commandment, in greek in latin and in italian is: "do not kill".

Cut be interesting to dig the historical reasons has been translated this way.  

Toad (fished a big one!!  ), i am plenty of compartecipation with the victim's point of view, and the relatives too, and for sure if i am personally involved in somethink bad as victim i will feel mad of hate and full of lust of revenge,
but,
we are talking of a state, and a state must be impersonal, cant work on emotions, and at the same time pretend to be coldblooded killing or murdering a man tied on a chair.
Impersonal judgement, rational, without any lust of revenge, this is the kind of treatment I expect from a state for me, and if i expect this for me i have to ask this for others (we are equal to the law, right?)

Mav, the DNA test were made AFTER the evidences disappear and reappear, you are so simple to believe the police leave the evidences untouched?
The police in this case dont check the alibi of the "friends" of Barnabei, the same people hiding in other states when the process goes (one is still in unknow place), and making partyes after the execution.
And for your stomach problems, better you see a doctor, cut be a bad disease  

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by Naso:
but, we are talking of a state, and a state must be impersonal, cant work on emotions, and at the same time pretend to be coldblooded killing or murdering a man tied on a chair.

Impersonal judgement, rational, without any lust of revenge, this is the kind of treatment I expect from a state for me, and if i expect this for me i have to ask this for others (we are equal to the law, right?)

First, let me say that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have no personal animosity against people that don't agree with me.  

I expect my Society, as represented by the State, to maintain and enforce the laws that have been implemented to protect individuals and groups. In short, the State should see to it that all citizens are afforded the rights and privileges that the Constitution affords.

Particularly, VICTIMS have rights just as criminals have rights. The victims and their relatives should be confident that Society will take the appropriate actions against the perpetrators of crimes.

I personally expect that after "due process" has been carried out, Society will deal with the criminals that deny Constitutional rights and privileges to other citizens.

In some cases this is a fine or imprisonment or even....death.

I have absolutely no problem with the death penalty itself. If a person is so callous as to deny life to another citizen, then let him/her suffer the same fate. "Post-Natal Abortion", "Cleaning the Algae out of the gene pool" or whatever you want to call it, seems exactly appropriate to me.

Electrocution, firing squad, lethal injection...whatever means the State uses to permanently remove such disgusting abberations from Society...are all acceptable to me.

When you commit a "capital" crime you have voluntarily forfeit your place in Society and on the "wheel of life". It is a personal choice to make, so those that make that choice should be willing to accept the consequences.
 
Every man is RESPONSIBLE for his actions. He should expect to be held ACCOUNTABLE for those actions by the Society in which he lives.

I think the mistake you make is that you have allowed this particular case to become an emotional issue for YOU.

I suspect that all the "normal" procedures were carried out by the State of Virginia. I have seen nothing anywhere that even begins to suggest that this was anything other than an impersonal and unemotional prosecution of a case by the State.

Do you have references that we all might read that show otherwise? Proof of your accusations, in other words?

[Maverick]

 

Originally posted by Naso:


Toad (fished a big one!!   ), i am plenty of compartecipation with the victim's point of view, and the relatives too, and for sure if i am personally involved in somethink bad as victim i will feel mad of hate and full of lust of revenge,
but,
we are talking of a state, and a state must be impersonal, cant work on emotions, and at the same time pretend to be coldblooded killing or murdering a man tied on a chair.
Impersonal judgement, rational, without any lust of revenge, this is the kind of treatment I expect from a state for me, and if i expect this for me i have to ask this for others (we are equal to the law, right?)

Mav, the DNA test were made AFTER the evidences disappear and reappear, you are so simple to believe the police leave the evidences untouched?
The police in this case dont check the alibi of the "friends" of Barnabei, the same people hiding in other states when the process goes (one is still in unknow place), and making partyes after the execution.
And for your stomach problems, better you see a doctor, cut be a bad disease  

Naso,

As a retired Police Officer, I think I know more about evidence than you have ever heard of. This "person" was tried by a jury of his peers. He was found guilty based on evidence and testimony irrespective of the DNA. The DNA test, requested by the prosecution, after the conviction merely confirmed the trial procedings. Are you seriously telling me the police faked the evidence after the trial? Where is your proof? What is the basis for the allegation? Perhaps this is a problem in your country and you assume it's the same elsewhere. You obviously have never seen the process of evidentiary cataloging and storage. Evidence lockers in a major city are simply HUGE and it does take a while to find an item if it was placed in the wrong bin. Another item is that the evidence is required to be maintained even after a trial to be available for the subsequent appeals. This means keeping it for an extended amount of time and holding it while holding evidence from other cases.

The execution WAS carried uot by a disinterested government party. It was not done by the victims family or friends. It was done without a "lust for revenge". You should ask for equal treatment from the government. You should expect to be executed for premeditated murder. That is the law of the land this "person" lived in. You should expect punishment after the evidence is put to the test in a trial. You should NOT expect to be allowed to live after UNLAWFULLY raping and ending the life of an innocent victim.

Your country may want to keep around murderers. I prefer we not warehouse them here.

Mav

[Naso]