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Author Topic: kill shooter  (Read 4295 times)

Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2006, 11:18:14 PM »
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The fundamental problem with this approach is that it encourages "shooting over the shoulder"


That already happens all the time. I see that happen every time I play.

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This leads to tactics that do not mesh with reality -- did real pilots in situations like that shoot over over a friendly plane in front of them in order to steal kills?


Nothing real about Aces High, Aces High is a game.....not reality :)

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If you do away with killshooter, you'll replace threads like this with threads about kill stealers instead.


Dont we already have those on occasion? :)

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At least in this case you really do not have anybody but yourself to blame.


In the scenario I described above, I dont consider the shooter to be at fault. There is only so much you can reasonably do to avoid kill shooter. Sometimes due to the unpredictable nature of human players you will end up shooting a team mate. You can never predict with certainty what others will do in any given situation. The best you can do is make reasonable assumptions about their intentions.
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline pluck

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kill shooter
« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2006, 11:59:30 PM »
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Originally posted by Elfie
In the scenario I described above, I dont consider the shooter to be at fault. There is only so much you can reasonably do to avoid kill shooter. Sometimes due to the unpredictable nature of human players you will end up shooting a team mate. You can never predict with certainty what others will do in any given situation. The best you can do is make reasonable assumptions about their intentions.


I think this statement is very true.  and in fact can be a problem in real life during real wars. we all hear stories of friendly fire, and is usually not intentional.

i am in the camp though, that believes anytime you pull the trigger at hit something, whether it be a plane or a toolshed, something should happen.  cause and effect.  if you should a bad guy, he dies.  if you shoot a country man, whether intentional or not, who should be penalized?

i think k/s is as good as it could be. are there instances when it doesn't seem fair...maybe. if it wasn't on could the situation be abused....yes.

i say aim, fire...and may the cards fall where they lie.   Vast
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Offline DipStick

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kill shooter
« Reply #137 on: February 12, 2006, 12:28:25 AM »
Skipped alot of previous posts...

I never had a problem with PNG or KS. Once you know it's there it's up to you to avoid it.

I almost always fight in furballs with friendlys everywhere. I've only KSd myself couple times in last year or more.

Adapt and quit whining or go play Chutes and Ladders.
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #138 on: February 12, 2006, 12:28:55 AM »
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i am in the camp though, that believes anytime you pull the trigger at hit something, whether it be a plane or a toolshed, something should happen. cause and effect


If everyone in the game not only made sure to not kill shoot themselves AND the others around them, I would agree with that. Unfortunately in AH as in RL there are those that dont care about the others around them and are only interested in themselves.

Why should I care if I fly in front of a teammate that is firing on an enemy? There are no consequences for that action. Well....not for me anyways....

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if you shoot a country man, whether intentional or not, who should be penalized?


For reasons I already stated, I say no one. It is *just* a game after all :)

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i say aim, fire...and may the cards fall where they lie.


Besides watching for folks that might be coming past you, or diving in, thats about all you can do isnt it? :D
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Pooh21

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kill shooter
« Reply #139 on: February 12, 2006, 01:09:59 AM »
only problem with it is you are trying to kill someone 600 of a friendlys 6, they are manuevering and 1, just 1 shot flys way off the mark and hits the friendly and your tail falls off. 1 or 2 accidental hits should not do anything.
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Offline DREDIOCK

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kill shooter
« Reply #140 on: February 12, 2006, 01:20:41 AM »
Leave it on and learn to let go of the trigger once in a while
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Offline bagrat

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kill shooter
« Reply #141 on: February 12, 2006, 02:18:12 AM »
could someone post for my reference, the proper way to post an idea or suggestion without it being concidered a "whine".

obviously sayin "i had an idea" or "what if" is not the answer.

oh well ill just go with it.

howcome everytime im flyin in my nik an start shootin enmy planes from 3K out, theres always 5 friendly planes flyin infront of me and they dont get outta the way when i start shootin. And after I hurt my plane off of friendlies an run out of bullets from holdin the trigger down for 45secs, I should be able to pick up power ups to fix my plane an give me homing missiles. after im done playin chutes an ladders i like to play ah, but request power ups be put into the game. yup

p.s.  I CANNOT FIND THE PAUSE BUTTON
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 02:31:56 AM by bagrat »
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #142 on: February 12, 2006, 02:48:50 AM »
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Originally posted by bagrat
could someone post for my reference, the proper way to post an idea or suggestion without it being concidered a "whine".

obviously sayin "i had an idea" or "what if" is not the answer.


I thought ya did just fine :)

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learn to let go of the trigger once in a while


That implies that it is ALWAYS the shooters fault.

That's no different than saying that in all car accidents the driver of the vehicle that struck another vehicle is ALWAYS at fault. Many times the driver of the vehicle that is struck is to blame.

I almost hit a car that was in the left hand turn lane when the driver decided he no longer wanted to turn left and pulled back out into traffic to keep going straight w/o bothering to use a turn signal. I *almost* hit that guy. If I had......then maybe I shoulda learned to let off the accelerator once in a while? :)
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline bagrat

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kill shooter
« Reply #143 on: February 12, 2006, 03:02:42 AM »
in all car accidents the driver of the vehicle that struck another vehicle is ALWAYS at fault. Many times the driver of the vehicle that is struck is to blame.

an some people sadly take advantage of this, heard stories of jerks who pull infront of commercial vehicles, an slam on the breaks in hopes of the driver hitting there tail.  As dumb as trying to get hit by a tractor trailor sounds, people do it.
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #144 on: February 12, 2006, 03:59:17 PM »
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an some people sadly take advantage of this,


Yep, just like they do in the game.

There are NO consequences if I fly in front of a friendly that is firing his guns. Well, not for me anyways. There is for the poor slob that I just flew in front of.

IRL flying in front of a friendly that is firing, or about to, is just as reckless and endangering as shooting over a friendlies shoulder. Assuming you survive, there would be consequences for either action when you landed.

While kill shooter does stop the griefers from killing every plane with a green tag on it, it does nothing to stop those who recklessly fly in front of their team mates guns.

Ordinance no longer kill shooters those who drop bombs/fire rockets simply because to many folks ignored bomber pilots pleas to clear the town when they dropped their loads on it.

The same thing could be done with bullets, it would solve both problems. No one could go around whacking their team mates at will, and those who recklessly and with no regard for others fly in front of thier team mates wouldnt be kill shootering others.

Is it perfect? No, but niether is kill shooter.

*edit* oops, hit the submit button before I was done heh.
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline hubsonfire

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kill shooter
« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2006, 07:29:35 PM »
Many of you are making the case that KS only happens when some "other tard" swoops in front of you when you're firing, and is therefore to blame. You're mostly ignoring the scenario of many vs few when the many are firing wildly. Negating the KS effect does nothing to remove a plane from the fight, even though friendlies may be firing without regard for each other. Hitech has mentioned this in almost every KS thread, and everytime a change is requested/suggested/discussed, those supporting a change ignore it.

Removing KS wouldn't solve any problems; it would simply be refusing to acknowledge them.
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Offline Saxman

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kill shooter
« Reply #146 on: February 13, 2006, 01:01:58 AM »
Here's an idea:

If someone needs to be punished, then punish them BOTH.

The guy doing the shooting dies because he either failed with his SA, or got overly greedy and fired with a friendly in the way when he didn't have a clear shot.

The guy who's HIT dies because he either failed with HIS SA and drifted too close to the line of fire of a friendly (which I admit I've done on occaison) or got too greedy and decided he was going to try to steal the kill by diving in front of a friendly lining up for a shot.

So both pilots involved die. Yeah, the guy who wasn't really at fault will still be punished, but this way you can't say that the guilty party got off free.
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #147 on: February 13, 2006, 02:18:34 AM »
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Originally posted by hubsonfire
Many of you are making the case that KS only happens when some "other tard" swoops in front of you when you're firing, and is therefore to blame. You're mostly ignoring the scenario of many vs few when the many are firing wildly. Negating the KS effect does nothing to remove a plane from the fight, even though friendlies may be firing without regard for each other. Hitech has mentioned this in almost every KS thread, and everytime a change is requested/suggested/discussed, those supporting a change ignore it.

Removing KS wouldn't solve any problems; it would simply be refusing to acknowledge them.


The only times I have KS'd myself (disregarding my first couple days :D) were when I fired over the shoulder of a friendly thinking I still had a clear shot, and one time I was trying to clear a friendly buff form, missed the enemy and hit the friendly buff instead heh. I accept the blame in those cases.

My main point is that it isnt ALWAYS the shooter's fault as many here are saying. It is my responsibility to make sure I dont shoot green planes. It is also my responsibility to make sure I dont fly my plane through another players bullet stream.

In AirWarrior with friendly fire off I didnt see the many firing wildly w/o regard for who was where. Sure people took what would be risky shots if friendly fire was on sometimes. Sometimes you had 4 or 5 people all firing at one target, but those things were the exception rather than the rule in my experience.

If someone HAS to die in a kill shooter situation, then why doesnt ordinance cause kill shooter anymore? If planes HAVE to be removed from the fight......then ordinance should still cause kill shooter. The guy dropping the bombs, firing the rockets should die since it's his sole responsibility to make sure his toolshed is clear before releasing. Right? But it isnt that way anymore. If kill shooter can change for ordinance, it can change for bullets as well :)

Sax, not sure your idea would work either. Griefers could still frag team mates. Sure they would die as well, but what griefer would care? heh
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 02:24:10 AM by Elfie »
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Guppy35

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kill shooter
« Reply #148 on: February 13, 2006, 02:43:56 AM »
Lev cut in front of me twice tonite and shot guys down.  I fired at him anyway and missed.

Can I have my money back? :)

LOL who the heck cares about this stuff!  It's a game!
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Offline Mr No Name

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kill shooter
« Reply #149 on: February 13, 2006, 03:04:09 AM »
As much as I HATE killshooter I know good and well that it isn't going to change.  All of the alternative suggestions are just as viable to one degree or another.  Unfortunately fellas this (like the B-29 P-39 threads) brings out all of the Kool-Aid Drinkers on this BBS. ( For those of you too young to know what the term refers to, read this)  Jim Jones, Guyana
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