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Author Topic: kill shooter  (Read 4296 times)

Offline Mathman

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kill shooter
« Reply #150 on: February 13, 2006, 03:36:53 PM »
I have played this game for awhile and it has been my experience that KS is not the big deal that many people seem to think it is.  I have only really KS'ed myself in two situations.  The first is when I am screwing around with my squaddies or am bored.  The second is when someone flies through my bullets when I am firing on a target.  This happens so infrequently that its a non-issue with me.
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Offline Mugzeee

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kill shooter
« Reply #151 on: February 13, 2006, 07:51:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by hubsonfire

Removing KS wouldn't solve any problems; it would simply be refusing to acknowledge them.

Most are not suggesting that K/S be removed. Only that it could be replaced by a better solution. It’s your opinion that there isn’t a better solution. Others are of the opinion that there is a better solution.
Just because your opinion happens to coincide with the current solution doesn’t necessarily make it the best solution. It just automatically aligns your opinion with the current solution. Which in turn means that you need not make your case for it has already been made.
PS. Got this from a good source. Put yer money on "HT's Pride"
running this Saturday at the track.
Its a sure thing. ;)
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #152 on: February 13, 2006, 09:11:25 PM »
Quote
Most are not suggesting that K/S be removed. Only that it could be replaced by a better solution. It’s your opinion that there isn’t a better solution. Others are of the opinion that there is a better solution.


Very few things are designed so well that they cant be improved upon. :)
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline hubsonfire

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kill shooter
« Reply #153 on: February 13, 2006, 10:03:55 PM »
The only case for a change in KS that anyone has made is that the change would prevent them from doing damage to themselves when they shoot friendly aircraft.

While you may think this to be a good idea, I happen to support the concept of not shooting them in the first place. To me, not doing something stupid is a better solution than recoading the game.
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mook
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Offline SlapShot

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kill shooter
« Reply #154 on: February 13, 2006, 10:07:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mathman
I have played this game for awhile and it has been my experience that KS is not the big deal that many people seem to think it is.  I have only really KS'ed myself in two situations.  The first is when I am screwing around with my squaddies or am bored.  The second is when someone flies through my bullets when I am firing on a target.  This happens so infrequently that its a non-issue with me.


Whoa !!! ... out of the depths ... emerges MATHMAN !!!

Good to see ya on back the boards ... have you jumped back into the MA lately ?
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #155 on: February 13, 2006, 11:29:53 PM »
Quote
The only case for a change in KS that anyone has made is that the change would prevent them from doing damage to themselves when they shoot friendly aircraft.


The case I'm making is for those times when it's someone else flying like an idiot. I've also said that the responsibility for kill shooter goes both ways, it doesnt just apply to me firing my guns, it also applies to me NOT flying through another players bullet stream.

Quote
I happen to support the concept of not shooting them in the first place.


I think you are preaching to the choir on that one. I havent seen anyone advocating killing friendlies :)

Quote
To me, not doing something stupid is a better solution than recoading the game.


It's already been done for ordinance :) I guess thats another case I've been making heh

I firmly believe that we need something in place to stop griefers. Griefers suck 3 week old dog turds. The system we have now punishes those griefers by killing them. It also sometimes punishes those that have made every reasonable attempt to avoid kill shooter but due to another players carelessness they get kill shootered anyways.

Other than turning off friendly fire, I'm not sure what other solution would not only stop the griefers but also not penalize players for the stupidity and carelessness of others.
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline hubsonfire

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kill shooter
« Reply #156 on: February 14, 2006, 12:29:56 AM »
Ordnance was very easy to abuse. Bail over the enemy field, or near the nme GVs/strat/city. Wait for friendlies. Friendlies drop ordnance, die, no icon for the silkchimp on the ground, no way to let off the trigger, no way for friendly to figure out what's killing them.

While I don't know if this is why HT changed it, I know this was done. If KS was this easy to manipulate and grief others, I'd support a change. Since it's not, the change made for ordnance isn't a good rationale for negating/removing/replacing KS. The simple fact of the matter is that only you can decide when and where you will shoot. If you shoot a friendly, you are to blame. While they may be displaying poor SA in not recognizing that you're about to fire, you're displaying worse SA by firing.
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mook
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Proper punctuation and capitalization go a long way towards people paying attention to your posts.  -Stoney
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Offline DREDIOCK

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kill shooter
« Reply #157 on: February 14, 2006, 12:42:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie


 

That implies that it is ALWAYS the shooters fault.



Thats because the very vast majority of the time.....
It is.

Mind your SA both friendly and enemy and fire in bursts instead of shooting half your ammoload at each pull of the trigger and several things will happen.

You will get killshooter alot less. because you will know not to pull the trigger again when someone pops in front of you.
And because your only firing in bursts the likelyhood of you killing yourself because of it drops

You will have anough ammo to shoot at more then one plane before having to RTB.

Out of necessity your aim will get better.

How many years I been around here now? 3,4? I forget.

By following those simple rules I can count on one hand and probably have a couple fingers left over how many killshooters I've gotten.
and I get people dropping and popping up in front of me all the time

But I see people killshoot themslves all the time. Either by firing over the shoulder or not paying attention to their surroundings and holding the trigger down in long bursts when another plane drops in.

Do killshooters happen sometimes in spite of these precautions? yes..sometimes.
But the number of the ones you get can be drasticaly reduced with some simple self dicipline and awareness
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Offline Elfie

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kill shooter
« Reply #158 on: February 14, 2006, 02:12:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Thats because the very vast majority of the time.....
It is.

Mind your SA both friendly and enemy and fire in bursts instead of shooting half your ammoload at each pull of the trigger and several things will happen.

You will get killshooter alot less. because you will know not to pull the trigger again when someone pops in front of you.
And because your only firing in bursts the likelyhood of you killing yourself because of it drops

You will have anough ammo to shoot at more then one plane before having to RTB.

Out of necessity your aim will get better.

How many years I been around here now? 3,4? I forget.

By following those simple rules I can count on one hand and probably have a couple fingers left over how many killshooters I've gotten.
and I get people dropping and popping up in front of me all the time

But I see people killshoot themslves all the time. Either by firing over the shoulder or not paying attention to their surroundings and holding the trigger down in long bursts when another plane drops in.

Do killshooters happen sometimes in spite of these precautions? yes..sometimes.
But the number of the ones you get can be drasticaly reduced with some simple self dicipline and awareness


I do all those things already :)

Quote
If you shoot a friendly, you are to blame. While they may be displaying poor SA in not recognizing that you're about to fire, you're displaying worse SA by firing.


If the shooter does everything reasonable to avoid KS, and someone flys in front of him carelessly, then he is to blame for reasons I have already stated.

I agree that is was easier to abuse the ordinance issue, but that doesnt make the arguement less valid. KS can be abused as well. If something can be abused, it will be. People are just that way :)
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Oleg

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kill shooter
« Reply #159 on: February 14, 2006, 03:46:02 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
KS can be abused as well. If something can be abused, it will be. People are just that way :)


Abusing killsooter almost impossible. You never know exactly what happen in somebody's other FE because of internet lag. If you fly through his bullet stream in your FE it dont means you do same in his FE. That simple fact make abusing almost impossible. It valid if you actually do not want fly through his bullets also.
Only shooter know where and when he shoot.
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Offline Westy

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kill shooter
« Reply #160 on: February 14, 2006, 08:00:37 AM »
"Very few things are designed so well that they cant be improved upon."

 In this case the solution (current killshooter) is very simple and effective. IMO any extra effort to make it more complicated to suit whines of a few would be idiotic.  Kind of like HTC wasting manhours designing and creating a PBY for players to use in the MA for making "rescues" - although at least that would be an actual addition of something extra to the game.
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Offline culero

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kill shooter
« Reply #161 on: February 14, 2006, 08:09:55 AM »
Actually PBY would also be useful for other things. In addition to long-range scouts for PAC theater scenarios (what *I* want them for) they were about the only thing in the war heavier than a JABO fighter that were commonly used for dive-bombing. If HTC would shut off bomb release in heavy bombers beyond a specified (configurable) number of degrees from level, and have a PBY, then at least we could have realisitic dive-bombings of fleets :)

culero
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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kill shooter
« Reply #162 on: February 14, 2006, 09:01:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Very few things are designed so well that they cant be improved upon. :)


Applying damage to the specific area hit on the friendly plane to the specific area on your own plane rather than applying all damage to the fuselage was an improvement.  :)

-- Todd/Leviathn
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Offline Simaril

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kill shooter
« Reply #163 on: February 14, 2006, 10:41:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
...snip...
If HTC would shut off bomb release in heavy bombers beyond a specified (configurable) number of degrees from level, and have a PBY, then at least we could have realisitic dive-bombings of fleets :)

culero



pretty please, HTC.....



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« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 10:44:15 AM by Simaril »
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Offline rabbidrabbit

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kill shooter
« Reply #164 on: February 14, 2006, 10:49:25 AM »
HT's response to the divebombing question was kinda weird.  Basically, he said there are plenty of gamey parts of the game so why change this one.
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