Author Topic: That RV6 is gonna get pwned  (Read 626 times)

Offline gofaster

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That RV6 is gonna get pwned
« on: February 13, 2006, 07:33:20 AM »
by this:

Javelin


Offline nuchpatrick

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That RV6 is gonna get pwned
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 11:01:31 AM »
WOW.. Talk about pocket rocket lol..

Offline Furball

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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 12:40:44 PM »
i want one..  looks like an F5 that has been rear ended by an F-18
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Offline Pooh21

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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 01:25:11 PM »
it looks like the f-18 that the other f-18s beat in school.
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Offline Furball

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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 01:26:29 PM »
F-18 beat something? :rofl
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Offline RightF00T

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That RV6 is gonna get pwned
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 02:54:14 PM »
Whats with the baby wings?  That thing probably climbs/turns like a well-guided rock.

Offline gofaster

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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 03:44:03 PM »
Yeah, I was kinda surprised that it didn't have a larger wing area, and at least some provision for external stores (i.e. an ice cream churn on port station and beer keg on starboard).  Then again, its a bizjet so economy is the main selling point and I would think a larger wing would create more drag.  

Still looks like a pretty sharp little plane to bring to fly-ins.  My first thought was that it was an extension of the Northrop F5.

Not rated to break the sound barrier, though.  No Mach for you!

Offline gofaster

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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 03:44:54 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by RightF00T
Whats with the baby wings?  That thing probably climbs/turns like a well-guided rock.


Look at the size of the control surfaces compared to the wing area.

Offline Furball

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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2006, 03:46:50 PM »
im suprised it doesnt have an all moving tailplane.  wonder if it freezes up at high speed?
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2006, 05:00:56 PM »
2.5 million a copy, supposed to be churning em out in 2 years or so

Sharp looking plane.

Offline eagl

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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2006, 05:46:11 PM »
furby,

Without an all-movable tailplane it'll be limited to subsonic speeds.  My guess is approx .93 mach unless it has a flutter issue prior to that.  All movable horizontal stabs are complex, typically require some sort of pitch stability augmentation to prevent over-controlling at various speeds, and if they fail then the stab tends to move to a "flat plate" position instead of to a streamlined position like you get when a normal elevator control rod fails.

It's MUCH easier to just go with a conventional elevator and give up high transsonic or supersonic speeds.  It makes engine inlet design simpler too.

FWIW, the BD-10 crashed because the horiz stab suffered flutter at high speed and ripped the back of the plane off.  Bad thing to happen IMHO, and I suspect that if they'd had a subsonic target top speed, it may not have happened.

Yea, it does look like a modified T-38 to me too.  But there have been a lot of people saying that the T-38 modified with a new, slightly larger wing, would be a better trainer than the current model.  Most front line military aircraft are waaaay easier to land than the T-38 so I personally think that a T-38 with 10-20%ish greater wing area and limited to .95ish mach would make for a fine next-generation advanced trainer or even a civilian hotrod.  But that's just my opinion.

Regarding the twin tails, the T-38 gets away with only 1 tail because it has an active yaw damper system.  The yaw damper is disabled/non-functional in many USAF T-38s but those specific aircraft have operational limits placed on them to avoid problems that the yaw damper was supposed to fix.  My guess is that the javelin team found that they needed the twin tails to avoid having to go with a complex yaw damper system.  The T-38 without the yaw damper probably couldn't pass current FAA certification requirements.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 05:49:57 PM by eagl »
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Offline RightF00T

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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2006, 06:04:31 PM »
Wow, good to have experts around.  Thanks eagl!:)

Offline G0ALY

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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2006, 06:27:01 PM »
Why wait?... You can have a twin engine jet right now!

http://www.amtjets.com/gallery_real_plain.html
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Offline LePaul

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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2006, 07:02:56 PM »
One of my best friends is a retired KC-135 driver, I used to inquire how he liked the T-38 from his flight training days.  He said it had a very very small margin for error when coming in to land.  While it was a lot of fun to fly at altitude, he doesnt miss landing em

I also thought they were a really sharp Thunderbird jet way back when

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2006, 07:22:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by eagl
furby,

Without an all-movable tailplane it'll be limited to subsonic speeds.  My guess is approx .93 mach unless it has a flutter issue prior to that.  All movable horizontal stabs are complex, typically require some sort of pitch stability augmentation to prevent over-controlling at various speeds, and if they fail then the stab tends to move to a "flat plate" position instead of to a streamlined position like you get when a normal elevator control rod fails.

It's MUCH easier to just go with a conventional elevator and give up high transsonic or supersonic speeds.  It makes engine inlet design simpler too.

FWIW, the BD-10 crashed because the horiz stab suffered flutter at high speed and ripped the back of the plane off.  Bad thing to happen IMHO, and I suspect that if they'd had a subsonic target top speed, it may not have happened.

Yea, it does look like a modified T-38 to me too.  But there have been a lot of people saying that the T-38 modified with a new, slightly larger wing, would be a better trainer than the current model.  Most front line military aircraft are waaaay easier to land than the T-38 so I personally think that a T-38 with 10-20%ish greater wing area and limited to .95ish mach would make for a fine next-generation advanced trainer or even a civilian hotrod.  But that's just my opinion.

Regarding the twin tails, the T-38 gets away with only 1 tail because it has an active yaw damper system.  The yaw damper is disabled/non-functional in many USAF T-38s but those specific aircraft have operational limits placed on them to avoid problems that the yaw damper was supposed to fix.  My guess is that the javelin team found that they needed the twin tails to avoid having to go with a complex yaw damper system.  The T-38 without the yaw damper probably couldn't pass current FAA certification requirements.


Great post! Interesting analysis. About that BD10 crash, it killed the CEO of the company. (Promotional video of the BD-10 here, with CEO speaking about aircraft safety)Here is the flutter analysis of the tail ripping off, good read:
http://www.aircraftdesigns.com/flutter-analysis.html

Incidently, finite analysis is one of the products I support in our CADCAM org, I really enjoy playing with some of the models the engineers supply me. :)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 07:34:47 PM by Ripsnort »