74 vs 22

[RTR]

Logged last night a little frustrated. 74 allied vs 22 axis.

I admit, I didn't stick around to see if it got any better,  an hour was sufficient for me to watch allied #'s rising.

Did it get any better?

RTR

[bcee]

yep..think it went to 84 vs 34...

[Stringer]

I think that was due to a special Allied mission which had been in the works for at least a week, with a posting in this forum to get as many people, allied and axis involved as possible.

[Fencer51]

You should have upped as Luftwaffe.  That was a night to remember for quite some time.

[Treize69]

Problem is that most of the axis dont want to spend all night climbing just to get killed on the first pass or jumped before they even get there. So they either dont check in at all, or take one look at the numbers and leave.

I know its historical, Im not complaining about that. But it makes for an extremely frustrating (and non-enjoyable) evening of gameplay.

If this is what ToD is going to be like for LW fliers, get ready for an astounding lack of opposition.

[KONG1]

Not complaining but was way lopsided all weekend.  Mostly weekend warriors I’m guessing, my k/d was better than usual, probably due to more targets with less experience.  Was disappointing to see some AvA regulars not switching.  

Seems that a ratio of 3:1 will actually bring the acklies across the channel but at 2:1 one has to fly over England and under their planes to get them to engage…Hey, what ever it takes (shrugs )

[RTR]

I flew axis for over an hour last night. Logged when it got to the point of being rediculous.

Allied mission or not. 74 vs 22 is overkill.

what happened to switching sides to even it up a bit? I don't mind being out numbered, but that was way over the top.

just my $.02 worth.

cheers,
RTR

[Guppy35]

While I wasn't able to make it as I worked, I would suggest that Fencer's "Fair Warning" post might have been reason for the LW guys to try and track down some buddies for the fun.

Clearly the Allied guys were working to get a lot of people to fly.  I know I sure wanted to be in one of those 38s.

Now folks are mad that they got organized and ran a mission and the numbers got off balance.

Imagine if the same effort had been made by the LW types to get their buds to come fly.  150 plus in A v A?  When's the last time that happened if ever?

Instead of WOW!  it's WAH!  AH never fails in that regard

[RTR]

Guppy u misread my intention.

what normally happens in the AVA when the  #'s become widely imbalanced is people switch to even it up a bit.

This clearly didn't happen last night. I welcome larger numbers and missions of any sort being organized in the AvA.

What i don't welcome is the standard MA mentality. It ain't the MA.

If this is what you want then stay in the MA. Everything you need is right there.

RTR

[Treize69]

As I said Dan, the complaints arent (IMO) so much that the Allies got themselves organized (its about bloody time!) just that sometimes the historical aspect can overpower the fun aspect.

When you take a look at the numbers and want to leave without even getting up and giving it a try, then the fun has been sucked right out of it.

With me it's not so much proportions as numbers- theres a big difference between being down 15-5 and being down 60-20 or 75-25. Proportion is still 3:1, but the numbers you're up against are rediculous.

btw, if you are looking for a few good P-38 vs 109 fights, let me know when you will be on- I'm dying to fight anything thats name doesnt include the letters "Mk" at this point.

[Guppy35]

RTR, I understand your concern and have no problem with folks switching sides for balance.  When I fly the MA I generally always move to where the numbers are lowest.  As a well proven target for other AH pilots I always feel most at home under the guns of the masses

I know that the guys who organized the Allied mission are history junkies like myself and the chance to load up in my 38 and escort the buffs deep against the LW is what appeals to my history fanatic side.

In A v A you have two sides, a historical map and the planes to make that happen.  The guys set it up and sent out 'fair warning' to the LW far in advance.  It's too bad the LW junkies didn't come out of the woodwork to fly it too is all.

It sounds like Allied guys who got shot down, switched sides to take a shot at the buffs too.

In the end it was an opportunity missed when it could really have been something had more LW drivers been involved.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Treize69
Problem is that most of the axis dont want to spend all night climbing just to get killed on the first pass or jumped before they even get there. So they either dont check in at all, or take one look at the numbers and leave.

People who did so made a mistake.

I flew Axis last night, logging on around 9:35 p.m. Eastern time.  At that point the raid was probably just crossing the English coast.  There were 105 players on, something like 80 v. 25.  I think I've only seen numbers above 100 in the CT twice before, and both times were before AH2.

Fencer had advertised this mission for a long time on these boards.  One only had to read his "Fair Warning" thread to know that it was a big B-17 escort raid (Mission 250 was the March 6, 1944 raid on Berlin).  That meant that many of the Allied players would be driving bombers, so the raw numbers really didn't tell the story.

A B-17 escort mission means that the bombers are going to be flying above 20k - that's plain history.  So there wasn't much excuse for getting surprised by high-flying escorts.  The solution was to take off from a rear base.  Because Fencer had told us what the target would be, it was easy to pick a base along the way.

I managed two interceptions.  Both times I started higher than the local escort.  Both times the escort was scattered around the formation enough that I was able to find an opening and make a couple of passes on the bombers (not that it made much of a difference!).  Again, the raw numbers weren't telling an accurate story.

Had the raw numbers been even, I doubt that the bomber formation would have made it close to the target.  As it was, the mission was a real history lesson, for both sides.  Next time you see an imbalance in numbers, stick with it enough to see how it plays out.  If you don't want to spend the time climbing to intercept, that's fine, pick off some of the escorts who had to drop their tanks and are on the way home.  But this was one of the most un-MA-like evenings we've had in a long while.

- oldman

- oldman

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Oldman731
I managed two interceptions.

Actually, it was three.  I repressed one.

- oldman

[Shifty]

Originally posted by Oldman731
People who did so made a mistake.

I flew Axis last night, logging on around 9:35 p.m. Eastern time.  At that point the raid was probably just crossing the English coast.  There were 105 players on, something like 80 v. 25.  I think I've only seen numbers above 100 in the CT twice before, and both times were before AH2.

Fencer had advertised this mission for a long time on these boards.  One only had to read his "Fair Warning" thread to know that it was a big B-17 escort raid (Mission 250 was the March 6, 1944 raid on Berlin).  That meant that many of the Allied players would be driving bombers, so the raw numbers really didn't tell the story.

A B-17 escort mission means that the bombers are going to be flying above 20k - that's plain history.  So there wasn't much excuse for getting surprised by high-flying escorts.  The solution was to take off from a rear base.  Because Fencer had told us what the target would be, it was easy to pick a base along the way.

I managed two interceptions.  Both times I started higher than the local escort.  Both times the escort was scattered around the formation enough that I was able to find an opening and make a couple of passes on the bombers (not that it made much of a difference!).  Again, the raw numbers weren't telling an accurate story.

Had the raw numbers been even, I doubt that the bomber formation would have made it close to the target.  As it was, the mission was a real history lesson, for both sides.  Next time you see an imbalance in numbers, stick with it enough to see how it plays out.  If you don't want to spend the time climbing to intercept, that's fine, pick off some of the escorts who had to drop their tanks and are on the way home.  But this was one of the most un-MA-like evenings we've had in a long while.

- oldman

- oldman

Well Said OM

[FiLtH]

Yes it was announced with plenty of time to have axis guys get together and plan an intercept. 20 of us allied were bombers. Probably another 20 were dogfighting in the channel on the deck in the 15.46 area.

    What we need is for the axis players to be willing to plan interception, and play like its their lives on the line. Coming in on the 6 and sitting there is a sure way to get killed, especially if the attacks come in by 1s and 2s.

     I found it odd, with such an attractive target, that so few LW attacked us.Usually its hard to find the bomber guys to fill the ranks, followed by escort types. The intercept types are usually the easiest ranks to fill.

     Headon attacks with 10 LWs attacking, and repositioning for follow up attacks, or simply firing everything you can on that one pass and buggin out to safety would be highly effective.

     The thing is as far as the numbers go, most of the guys in the mission were invited to join in and planned on being in a certain unit. Speaking for myself, I wouldnt have wanted to go axis just because the numbers were off, after looking forward to bombing all week. Im sure others felt the same way.

     Perhaps the next time we do this, some players who have active squad members could be in on the planning, to assure a battle with enough players on each side. However, it just as easily could have gone the other way lastnight, with the axis being overmanned.

     I think most of all, players have to think that the object isnt to kill every last bomber you see (although Im sure it would be preferred), the object should be a successful intercept, and escaping the escort to reup and follow up the attack after you have survived the initial contact.

     Every hit that is put on a bomber, a lost engine for example...as in history, dooms that bomber. Hit and run. Nobody in a mission is going to badmouth that type of play.