Author Topic: AMD or Intel?  (Read 1182 times)

Offline Dace

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AMD or Intel?
« on: February 13, 2006, 04:42:48 PM »
Im building a new computer with tax money. I'm on a low budget and dont know a whole lot bout the new stuff. So here are my 2 options....plz tell me which y'all would get.

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ 2.0 Ghz 939 socket
                    or
Intel P4 3.2 Ghz 775 socket

I've always had AMD (well, since I've been gaming) and it would be a sure thing .....but the new Intel 775 boards support the new dual-channel PC4200 RAM, so I'm torn :confused:


HELP!!:rolleyes:
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 04:44:58 PM by Dace »

Offline Krusty

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2006, 05:05:54 PM »
Intel. For various reasons. These reasons include the ability to withstand heat better (some of them run hotter, yes, but they also can TAKE the heat as well), the ability to overclock better if you are so inclined, the general stability of the modern Pentiums (talking single core here) and so forth. I got nothing against AMDs per se, but I have built up a trust for Intel chips over the years, they have served me very well

Offline LePaul

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 05:15:56 PM »
See Id say the opposite, the AMD's are reknowned for offering more gaming power for less money.

AMD Athlon X2's are sweet...but any of the Athlon 64 lineup are nice.

For my work, servers or laptops....Intel.  For a gaming rig, AMD.

You're going to get a lot of responses...its much like asking whose better...Ford or Chevy (Answer:  Honda!  LOL)

Offline Krusty

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 05:20:27 PM »
If you want to game on it, go single core. I'm serious here. Most games (AH included) do not work with dual cored CPUs.

As for AMD chips being better in games: They run at a higher front bus speed (the chips are, essentially, all the same but overclocked at different speeds, whereas Intel chips have all the same FSB but progress through more powerful chips at that FSB). This basically runs games at a slightly higher FPS but doesn't really give much of a computing benefit (from what I've heard).

Offline LePaul

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 05:25:10 PM »
"What i've heard" isnt a very sellable position.  :)

If you check out http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/index.html  you can see countless CPU comparison articles between Intel and AMD.  I wont hide my bias towards AMD in the gaming realm...but here's what the experts purport.


Clip from one Intel vs AMD article...

Energy Consumption: Intel Needs 30 Percent More Juice
The gulf separating the AMD and Intel platforms in their use of power is nowhere clearer than during simple operation of the Windows user interface: The Intel system consumes 13 percent more power than AMD. This rises to up to 30 percent when both systems are running under full load. This once again demonstrates just how power-hungry Intel's processors are, which can be traced back to their much higher clock speeds.

Suitability In Practice: AMD Plainly For Gaming Fans
If you're looking for a high-performance system for 3D games, you could do no better than to go with the AMD system. In particular, it does not create problems in the SLI setup with the nForce4 SLI chipset. The extra performance produced by the increased frame rate makes itself noticeable above all in mainstream 3D games.

The downside of the Intel system is the automatic deactivation of SLI mode when using the 955X chipset from Intel - the NVIDIA graphics driver is the guilty party here.

Buying Tips: AMD More Efficient
So what should you be buying if you're about to shell out a large sum of money for one of the top systems? In the business sector, an Intel system would be the better choice, especially considering the better availability and service offered by partners and solution providers. As far as power goes, Intel is an inefficient energy-guzzler with up to 30 percent more power consumption than the AMD system.

For enthusiasts, meanwhile, the choice is clear: The Athlon 64 X2 system has the best performance when running individual power-hungry applications and shines with exemplary stability. Generally, the same cannot be said for the Intel system: it only worked without a problem with boards with an Intel chipset - the nForce4 SLI setup for the Intel platform still causes difficulties.



Source

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 05:26:37 PM »
Regardless, all the gaming benchmarks I've seen have the AMD chips either beating the equivalent P4 hands down or at worst coming in a tie.  I've not seen that any of the Athlon 64 chips have any overheating problems, unlike the old 32 bit XP series.  You cant say the same for the P4.  

Also, just because a game doesnt take advantage of dual core, thats no reason not to have it.  32 bit apps run just fine in a 64 bit environment, and its hedging your hardware bets for the future.  Not saying go out of your way for 64 bit, but no reason to avoid it either.  Thats silly.

*edit

Dont just rely on Toms.  They are a bit biased too.  There are several other sites out there that do the same thing though, and they agree in this case.

Offline LePaul

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 05:27:55 PM »
Yep, if Dual Core was such a bad AMD idea, why's Intel doing it too?

;)

Offline Krusty

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 06:16:06 PM »
Dual core only works as long as the software can use it. There are problems where people running dual core AMDs have to disable one of the cores inside Windows before AH will run properly. There are several posts on the matter in these forums. That is why I mentioned that part.


I think that Intel chips will take more juice, simply because the nature of the chips. Working at a set FSB of 800MHz (for example) each chip successively gains transistors and the number of computations each cycle grows, but the cycle frequency stays the same. In AMD You have the same set of transistors but the number of cycles is increased, you're fudging the results by simply upping the frequency over and overy and over again, for the same number of computations.

So naturally Intel chips will take a little more power, they've got something on the order of millions of more switches to toggle each cycle, each of which takes a fraction more juice.

In the long run, power consumption isn't a big deal. General performance is. I have also heard reports of biased opinions on Tom's, including setting the tests up to favor one chip or card versus a competitor's, then saying "the results say this one is better" when the test was biased. I think the example I have in mind was the bench testing of Intel's dual core and AMD's X2... can't recall exactly.

Offline LePaul

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2006, 07:06:47 PM »
This is hilarious.

More power usage is better?

 You heard Tom's Hardware is biased?  Fine, search other sites.  But for the love of God, back up your statements with some sort of data versus this 'Well, I heard the world was flat so Im inclined to think that'

The man was asking for feedback and suggestions.  Not flat out myths.

Here's a novel idea...if you dont have a clue what you're talking about...fight the urge to post.

Offline acetnt367th

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2006, 07:49:28 PM »
Dace,

The amd 64 will be better for gaming and would be cooler as well. More importantly, mke sure your new motherboard is PCIe and get a good vid card.


Regards

Acetnt

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2006, 08:03:59 PM »
Awhile back I was digging into the AMD Sempron 64s and got a link to an article from ExtremeTech.com where they tested an Athlon 64 and Sempron 64 on the same motherboard vs a Pentium 4 and Celeron D on the same setup.  Everything was identical except for the CPU in each test.  Things were close in the benchmarks but when they tested them in ACTUAL GAMES, this was what they found.

Quote
When it comes to running real games, though, there's just no contest. Intel's budget Celeron D chips simply don't run games nearly as well as their more expensive Pentium line, and even those are left in the dust regularly by AMD. Sure, the Athlon 64 with its larger cache (and larger price tag) is faster than the Sempron, but the budget chip still manages to hold its own, and it just creams the Celeron D.

Offline 38ruk

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2006, 08:32:44 PM »
?
Quote
These reasons include the ability to withstand heat better (some of them run hotter, yes, but they also can TAKE the heat as well), the ability to overclock better if you are so inclined,



Quote
Here's a novel idea...if you dont have a clue what you're talking about...fight the urge to post.


LOL , Krusty , how did  you come to the conclusion that Intels are better overclockers?  I'm just curious what cpu's you are compairing?  Where are you getting your info, Intel.com? Intels withstand heat better because they have to in order to mantain a decent lifespan .

Edit : here is a  simplified explaination of the two different chip architectures. http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2005Dec/bch20051215033811.htm
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 09:12:58 PM by 38ruk »

Offline OOZ662

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2006, 08:58:06 PM »
Can't believe I'm first to say that it all comes down to personal preference for the most part. From your post, I'm guessing you won't be doing l33t overclocking anyway, maybe a tiny bit here and there. Both chips work for that. The Intel chipset has the faster RAM. But the other still works just fine.

AMD people will bash Intel, Intel people will bash AMD. It's the circle of fire. I myself am an Intel person, but I'm not going to start flinging statistics at you.
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Offline bloom25

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2006, 09:52:08 PM »
I thought I'd chime in here, as I'm seeing some inaccurate information being posted.

Krusty I think you're a bit confused on what a "FSB" is and does, and I thought maybe everyone here might want to learn something.  (And I have 20 minutes until my next meeting, so I've got time to burn...)

The "FSB" is simply an acronym for the "front side bus."  (A bit of a misnomer that dates from the old days when a CPU had a front side bus and a separate bus, sometimes called the "Back Side Bus," to its Level 2 cache.)  The Front Side Bus is simply the link between the CPU and its northbridge/memory controller.  AMD Athlon 64 series CPUs don't have a "front side bus" by the classical definition of the term, because they have the memory controller on the CPU.  What they do have is a Hypertransport 1600 or 2000 MHz (effective rate) bus to the rest of the system.

You CANNOT and should not compare CPUs with such a totally different architecture because of anything relating to "FSB."  The front side bus does not have anything to do with power consumption, at all.

Power consumption of any CPU is related to its capacitance, voltage (squared actually), clock speed, and static leakage currents.  The number of transistors does not have any direct impact on power consumption either.  (There is a loop hole here, but that's WAY beyond the scope of this post...)

AMD Athlon 64s draw much less power because of two key features.  1.  Lower clock speed.  2.  Silicon on Insulator (SOI) construction.  SOI reduces the capacitance of a transistor, which results in lower overall power consumption.  The drawback of SOI is that it is more expensive to build chips using it.

To put it quite simply, the Pentium 4 (netburst architecture) draws more power because it requires a higher clockspeed than the K8 architecture of the Athlon 64 to achieve the same level of performance.

The Athlon 64 perform better in games because its on die (built into the CPU) memory controller decreases the latency (time to access) to access system memory.  Games benefit more than most other applications from reduced memory latency.

I personally look at either CPU as a great option these days.  Both are very fast and priced very competively that you really can't go wrong either way.  They both have very mature and stable platforms available if you go with Intel 9xx series for Intel and nVidia nForce 4 for AMD.  AMD is a bit faster for gaming if you have a very high end graphics card that can take advantage of it.  If you don't spend good money ($300+) for the graphics card you are going to be bottlenecked there with either high end CPU.

My answer to the question is that unless you have $2000 to spend on the system to afford the $500 GeForce 7800 GTX 512 MB or Radeon 1900 XTX graphics card with the AMD FX CPU that the review sites are testing with you probably won't ever notice a difference.

This whole "dual core is bad/buggy for gaming" is also somewhat unfair, as this is really an issue with the operating system and games not being written to support dual core processors properly.  The stutters in games will effect AMD and Intel dual core CPUs.  You can make things worse though by loading special drivers (Cool and Quiet for AMD and enabling Speedstep for Intel) that change clock speeds based on CPU load, as games sometimes seem to behave badly when the CPU clock changes on the fly.  The fix is to set processor affinity on the game to only use one CPU.  I'd also expect Microsoft to release a patch to address the issue at some point as well.

I personally run an Athlon 64 X2 4400+ CPU on an Asus A8N32 Deluxe motherboard with a GeForce 7800 GT and am very happy with it.  My laptops are both Intel Pentium M based.  All of them are perfectly stable and very fast.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 10:02:52 PM by bloom25 »

Offline bloom25

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AMD or Intel?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2006, 09:58:58 PM »
One last thing...  DDR2 memory is *not* faster than "good old" DDR memory just because it has a bigger number at the end of it. ;)

DDR2 memory has higher latencies than DDR (1) memory, which actually makes it marginally slower in some tasks, gaming being one of them.  Those expecting DDR2 memory on the Athlon 64 coming later this year to result in a big performance boost are going to be in for a bit of a disappointment.  DDR2's real advantage over high speed DDR1 memory is simply that it's cheaper to produce and able to support higher memory density configurations (being able to support lots of memory in a system) because of better bus termination.  Don't expect a clear cut performance advantage out of it for gaming, all other things being equal, until you can compare DDR 2 667 or faster with DDR 400.  DDR 1 running at the unofficial 466 and 500 MHz (effective) speeds will be faster than DDR2 400/533/667 for gaming.