collisons, rams....whatever you wanna call it

[Nightshift82]

Ok,
I for one have seen more than enough "nice ram", "he hit me and I took the damage", "this collison model is bs" and so on.  Ok does anyone for real try to collide with anyone???  I would assume no, because I don't hear/read anyone braggin on thier ramming skills.  For real guys, if you're getting too close, just turn away.  I think adding the text, "player has collided with you", was a bad idea because it just opened up a new can of excuses for people to use.  Almost everytime I got the "you have collided" message, I know it was my mistake for trying to knive fight too close, or I was going too fast, basically I amit to myself that I screwed up.


just my 2-cents

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Nightshift82
Ok,
I for one have seen more than enough "nice ram", "he hit me and I took the damage", "this collison model is bs" and so on.  Ok does anyone for real try to collide with anyone???  I would assume no,

Wrong.  If out of ammo and attacked by multiple cons, I will take one with me some how.

Colision model is BS not because of how it records collisions, but how damage is taken.  For example:

Bad guy on my six right after take off.  I try a roll, the bad guy follows, he colides with me and gets fuel damage (FX1 can verify the story).

IL2 too close to a tiger.  I get message that I colided with the tiger.  Missing an aleron (happened repeatedly)

Lala attacks formation of lancs.  Lala colides with lancs.  Lala loses an aleron.

Thats what is BS about the colisions.

[FiLtH]

I have yet to see a collision I was part of, that looked like I should have been ok.  Got in one the other night in the AvA with Storch after a real nice long fight, and it was a brushing of both our planes...dont think either of us took damage, then during the next pass we hit again.

I say we, because even though it said storch collided with you, I saw it as close to nose to nose as you can get without kissin spinners.

 He lost something important and I took light damage. It probably has to choose one or the other, but to me it was a mutual collision.

[hubsonfire]

I have intentionally rammed (well, caused a collision) and killed my squaddies before.

It's entirely possible, but fairly difficult, to initiate a collision, but it requires not just a good sense of timing, but an alignment of the planets, and a grievous error on the part of your opponent.

I'd venture a guess that a lot try in a HO shot, but it's impossible to say with any certainty, and that's kind of a banzai charge/final act of defiance/kill me please situation to begin with. Not to mention the broad spectrum of parts you can lose in a collision. I've seen everything from blowing up completely, to losing the tail wheel, which isn't exactly  the end of the world.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by FiLtH
Got in one the other night in the AvA with Storch after a real nice long fight,

If you want your posts to be taken seriusly, don't make statements like that one,

[Warchief]

The thing that I have to hate with ramming is definitely the damage model. Me, myself I have been rammed by people who cant a solid shot on me and ram instead because it is easier to knock me down that way. My plane goes to tumbling to the ground and they fly off without a hint of damage. So to be the damage model needs to be is simpl.e Whether accident or not if you ram someone or get rammed both planes go down. Simple answer to a problem that shouldnt be a problem.

[Simaril]

Warchief,

There are vry good reasons why collisions happen the way they do, and teh issue has been covered in depth repeatedly.

The simple reason both planes dont take dmamage is because they only collided on your computer, and teh other guy was farther away from you on his....because of internet delays. On his copmuter, he broke at the last second avaoiding the collision, and so shludnt be punished.

If both planes took damage when someone else hit you, then you'd have every right to complain -- because you flew better and didnt hit.

Check out these threads:

here's a recent one
This ones a little older
another one
and this one "covers a lot of ground" in skuzzy's words

[Simaril]

I have to agree with comments above...pretty hard to create a collsion on purpose, and most every time I collide its my fault.

I wonder about the damage assignement after collisions -- and this might be worth a comment from on high, after tehy finish with the server migration today.

Is damamge assigned based oin what part teh computer sees hit, and our grphics are lagged enough that it seems strange -- or is there some other algorithm at work?

[Ghosth]

The odds of actually causing a ram are virtually astronamical.

I know guys who spend a couple of hours trying one night and never came close to pulling it off.

For all practical purposes, there IS NO RAM!
If you collided, its YOUR fault.  Learn from it and move on.

[Krusty]

Ghost the problem isn't the ram itself. The problem is the random BS that gets damaged in a ram!!!!

In a ram you might, say, flatten your radiator coolers on the flat surfaces if you bumb belly-to-bomberwing, for example. This might lead to an oil leak. What do you get? Missing rudder. If you ram head-on, what do you get? TAIL DAMAGE. If you get a passing glance off to the side, what do you get? GAS LEAK, GEAR LOSS.

WTF?!?!?

"None of these things are remotely damaged in the ram I just had!" <-- THAT is the problem with the ram model.

Also, never, EVER, does any plane ding a prop, which would be the first thing to go, in my opinion.

[Ghosth]

Simaril,  thats HT's dept, and I doubt he'd ever say exactly how it works.

However, if it was me, I'd keep it fairly simple.

Any time 2 planes occupy the same space at the same time run a check to see what parts would interact and in what order. Damage those parts according to speed and what they ran into.

But thats just my opinion.

IE if you see a collision coming, rolling so only 1 wing hits would probably do less damage than trying to fly straight though them.

Last, this is a massive online flight simulation, EVERYONE dies, even HT.
Chances are if you just died, you made a mistake someplace. Instead of blaming someone else for your death. Figure out what you did wrong!

[Krusty]

Actually the ONE consistent thing I've seen is that when you *do* roll to avoid a ram, and only that wing rams, you will "clip" the wing. I've seen this in the film viewer.

I'll think I can pull it off then I watch as one plane's wing slices through the other plane's wing in the film viewer. Naturally since it's my film viewer it's my ram and I just lost my wing. The other guy keeps on truckin'.

[Ghosth]

Krusty, the problem is your not able to sit out in space and watch the 2 planes as they interact frame by frame.

You have only your view from the cockpit.

So you don't really know what part could have inpacted what.

For myself, 90% of all collisions were totally straight forward.

If I clipped em on on the right, lost right wingtip, etc.
If I tried to slip too close to the belly of a bomber I was just shooting at,
lost rudder, tail parts. I've seen virtually no sign of the random, freaky damage your talking about.

[FiLtH]

Try this. Get with a bud, and go spinner to spinner a few times. (harder than it seems) Film it. Everytime I tried it, both me and another guy both toook some degree of damage. Sometimes fatal, most times damaged enough to affect flight.

Ive only once seen a collision happen, when I didnt see it as such, but the other guy went down from it. Sometimes it seems like the guy who tried to avoid at the last second will survive. Next time a collision is emminent, yank the stick and see if you live.

[Lephturn]

Originally posted by Ghosth
Krusty, the problem is your not able to sit out in space and watch the 2 planes as they interact frame by frame.

You have only your view from the cockpit.

So you don't really know what part could have inpacted what.

For myself, 90% of all collisions were totally straight forward.

If I clipped em on on the right, lost right wingtip, etc.
If I tried to slip too close to the belly of a bomber I was just shooting at,
lost rudder, tail parts. I've seen virtually no sign of the random, freaky damage your talking about.

LOL, good to see some things never change.

Hey Ghosth, don't you have a stock message to copy this from by now?  Hehehe.

You guys can always use my old solution.  Fly a Jug.