Author Topic: Vouchers  (Read 733 times)

Offline Eagler

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Vouchers
« on: January 25, 2001, 03:51:00 PM »
Somebody please explain to me what's wrong with vouchers? I think it's more a scare tactic to the schools so they try a little harder. It's your tax money, if you can educate your child better with it than the local "failing" public school can, what's the issue? I can see the teachers unions being against it as it hold them , the teachers, accountable for their performance, educating our children.
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Bush to Pitch Education Bill in Washington School

By Randall Mikkelsen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) on Thursday begins selling his education plan in schools, visiting an elementary school in the capital to highlight his proposals to hold educators accountable for student performance.

Bush is to meet students and teachers at Merritt Elementary School, which has for the last three years been testing student achievement annually in each grade and basing principal Nancy Shannon's job ratings on student progress.

Our progress is good. But it takes a lot to maintain the level of excellence that we expect,'' Shannon told Reuters. You can't afford to waste a single day.''

Accountability is a central plank of the education reform blueprint Bush submitted to Congress on Tuesday as his first legislative priority since assuming office last Saturday.

The bill would require annual testing of student performance, require states to develop performance-linked rewards and sanctions for schools, and implement a voucher-style program to help students in failing schools move to private schools.

Bush will also bring a bipartisan group of U.S. House of Representatives education leaders to the White House on Thursday to lobby for the bill.

Bush is visiting Merritt, which has a 100 percent African-American and 80 percent poor student population, to ''highlight the importance of accountability and making sure that every child is learning,'' said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.

Bush visited more than 100 schools during his presidential campaign as he made education reform one of his core issues.

He will visit more schools to sell the education bill, but probably not until after he has rolled out proposals on priorities such as prescription drug benefits for retirees and support for faith-based social initiatives, said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer.
 
Accountability And Testing

Shannon said she was not familiar with details of Bush's bill, but was aware that it emphasized accountability and testing. She said she was excited that he was coming to visit.

Bush would visit third and fourth grade students, and hold a discussion with teachers, she said.

The program of annually testing each student from first grade has been in place in Washington public schools for three years, Shannon said. As principal, 51 percent of her job rating is based on whether students in her school show advancement in their education level.

For example, 10 percent of the students who tested below basic'' educational levels one year must be raised to basic'' the next. Five percent must be raised from basic to proficient'' and five percent must be raised from proficient to advanced.''

The students met the goals last year, Shannon said. We did a lot to make sure we reached our targets.''

Shannon added that the curriculum was designed to avoid simply forcing teachers to train students for taking the achievement tests.
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Last sentence very important as this is one of the arguments the teachers are throwing out. As long as they test on what they are teaching, then this is a non issue. I think some are trying to make another church and state issue out of this. But, again, since it is my tax dollars, shouldn't I have the last word which school my child attends?

Or we can feed them MTV and Temptation Island, keeping them dumb, lazy and impressionable.

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TheWobble

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Vouchers
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2001, 04:01:00 PM »
My family paid 4k a year my first year of private school, yet the Airconditioner didnt work most of the time and there were no soap dispensers in the bathrooms, then next year it wnet up to 5k, still the school is falling apart, the schools excuse was that it doesent get any money from the state so they dont have much of a budget
$5000 x 30 students in a class = 150,000 per class, PLUS the fact that they charged $2 for a slice of pizza and 50 cents for a half pint of milk! at lunch, and the cokes at the machines were 75c for a can.

VOUCH MY ASS!  

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2001, 04:04:00 PM »
the gov't doesnt trust parents to make the right decision.

it is true that a lot of schools would pop up because it would be profitable - and the cirriculum and style would be extremely varied - but if you are keeping up with what your kid is doing, you will know if the school is worth it or not.

a lot of parents could care less its true - many are too absorbed in their 3rd divorce to check up on lil sally's algebra....but that doesnt change the fact that the public school system is a giant joke - teachers have been neutered and their ability to punish students has been taken from them - classes typically run wild with kids disrespecting the teacher while the others laugh - it is all about being cool and if you are there to learn too bad, just sit back and watch the teacher try to keep it together and try not to become the center of the ridicule - thats the way it was when i was in HS 10 years ago

- no one is going to learn in those environments - parents ought to have the choice to put them in the type of school they want their kids going to and not the dangerous wannabe gangland(suburban middleclass wanna be gangsta syndrome), hip-hop garbage culture public schools.

sure there are private schools now but imagine how many there would be if the gov't got into the voucher biz?! i am all for it

[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 01-25-2001).]

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2001, 04:05:00 PM »
 ooops double post (i went to public schools what do you expect)

[This message has been edited by mrfish (edited 01-25-2001).]

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2001, 04:15:00 PM »
thewobble
so was that the only private school around? Was somebody twisting your arm to go to that one?

Like I said the voucher is really a scare tactic to force the public schools, which are not accountable at all today, to be accountable for their performance. Shape up or ship out. To run it like a business not another government hand out...

At one Jr high teacher/parent conference, my son's english teacher had such a lack of the language, I couldn't see how she could teach it to anyone else. I couldn't even understand her. Her slang, twang "We people..." "She axed a question", etc..
He was transferred to another teacher.
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Offline Fatty

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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2001, 04:20:00 PM »
What Eagler said, Wobble.  Evidently, despite its faults, it was still better than the alternative (public school)?

Offline mietla

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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2001, 04:24:00 PM »
Anything free will be abused and not appreciated.

Offline AKDejaVu

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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2001, 04:38:00 PM »
You don't have to pay cash for something to apreciate it.

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2001, 04:44:00 PM »
haha - you guys believed something wobble said  

funked

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Vouchers
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2001, 05:01:00 PM »
Since I don't have any kids, I want my share of the money as a Beer Voucher.

Offline fd ski

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Vouchers
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2001, 05:04:00 PM »
education system being horrible is a fault of the government. For Bush to blame teachers for it, it's a crock of toejam at best.

Teachers have been naututred from any powers over kids. They make small salaries for some of the most demending work that one can find. They put up with things that would make most of us get up and say "diddly it, i quit". And now "the savior" Bush will SCARE the schools into teaching ?

As it is there is a horrible shortage of qualified teachers. Take a wild fricking guess why that is..
That leads to substandard education on all levels... which in turn leads to more kids growing up to be even worst teachers...
You can't fix it by "scaring" those who are already victims... just watch what will happend when they start leaving in droves..

Vouchers is nothing more then a demagogic gesture to reassure masses of their lack of guilt for their children being how they are. "no, it's not your fault that little johny can't read in 9th grade or never studies for 5 minutes in his life, it's school's fault" Yeah, right..

American educational system is C R A P, and that's mostly because just about every politician toejams on it to make it an election issue.... since it makes all the voters feel so good about their own shortcomings..


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Offline Fatty

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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2001, 05:40:00 PM »
Funding allotment is at a local level though, Ski, and in a given area there are always going to be schools that perform geat, and those that are matter of fact a dead end holding area.

Lower income areas simply do not have the clout to pry funding or resources from the richer areas to improve their schools, and frankly they never will.  At no one's fault (or everyone's) the fact remains there is no option for those stuck there, yet if you allow them to move to the more affluent public schools those schools are not going to lose funding, the parents with the clout will not allow it.

This is recognizing the system's faults, and using them to improve it.  Honestly I would be okay if the voucher system allowed transfer only to public schools, there are some great ones as said before, but inevitably there are situations where a better public school will not be available.

Ideally I'd like to see the likes of St. Paul's and Exeter's liberal elite flooded with inner city youths they claim to represent, but of course the likes of Ted Kennedy would never allow that.

TheWobble

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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2001, 05:41:00 PM »
KMA fish,

The school was the only private high school in the area but not the only private school, there are 2 or 3 k-8th grade private schools here too, i dunno about the cost of them though.  It just seems odd that at 150,000 per class that the school could be short of money in ANY way, where did the money go???

Offline mrfish

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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2001, 05:51:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by TheWobble:
KMA fish,

The school was the only private high school in the area but not the only private school, there are 2 or 3 k-8th grade private schools here too, i dunno about the cost of them though.  It just seems odd that at 150,000 per class that the school could be short of money in ANY way, where did the money go???

fair enough - i'm sure you've got a lotta potential - one of these days you will tell it straight all the time and i will actually owe you an apology  


Offline mietla

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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2001, 05:54:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by fd ski:
education system being horrible is a fault of the government.

Bingo. Completely agree with your post, but I would add NEA, teacher unions and parents who do not care to the guilty list.

My kids attended private schools only, but I am very much against the voucher "solution".

Vouchers will not fix the public schools problems, they will simply migrate all these problems to private schools.