Why Porking the LW does NOT make HTC $$

[kamilyun]

That's right, LW rides are OVERMODELED.  I am sick of HTCs little LW conspiracy.  I can understand, though.  He owns a 190D-9, his grandfather was a 109 ace in WWII, but these are not valid reasons for leaving us Allied plane pilots in the hurt.

I call on HTC to STOP PORKING ALLIED PLANES!!!!!!  Or I will take my business elsewhere!!!!

Proof:

190D9 vs P51D  k/d 1.34
190D9 vs P47N  k/d 2.0
190D9 vs La7  k/d 1.06
190D9 vs Spit 16  k/d 1.53

109K vs P51D k/d 2.0
109K vs P47N k/d 1.37
109K vs La7 k/d 1.44
109K vs Spit 16 k/d 1.57

From current tour...

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Timofei
Has anybody seen data about 109 low speed instability and the 190 high speed snap roll tendency ? I mean actual data ?

A whine is not data. Whines from 20 people in this BB still does not make it "data".  [...]
 

Actually, I posted a description of why, when, and how the 190 snap-roll happened based on scientific analysis of the airframe done in Sweden. That report explained how the US and RAF tests had such different impressions of the 190's low-speed stall. And it was done in a neutral country. I posted that months ago.

Ignoring when people post data just so you can call them whiners is no better than whining without data.


As for the 38 ... yeah ... it should be the ultimate EZ-Mode ride in this game and it surely isn't. I'd rather fly an A20G than a P38, but some people can do well in them big silver things.


As for pilot impressions ... I agree they need to be taken with many, many grains of salt. Especially in-combat impressions. Flight tests are more reliable. The biggest factor I keep in mind when reading combat reports of how one plane pwned another is that a pilot will think whatever plane kept him alive was the greatest thing since slice bread. I've read accounts from the PTO where pilots raved about their P39's and P40's ... even though those planes were complete PoS compared to anything new being pumped out of the factories from 1942 on.

[Timofei]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Actually, I posted a description of why, when, and how the 190 snap-roll happened based on scientific analysis of the airframe done in Sweden.

Was it this link:
http://www.anycities.com/user/j22/j22/aero.htm

That says:

"The Focke Wulf 190 used the NACA 23015.5 as the root airfoil and the NACA 23009 as the tip airfoil. It had some tricky stalling characteristics due to the following facts:

 Leading edge separation of the 23-series section airfoils
 Only 2° twist
 Lack of sufficient torsional rigidity of the wing
 The twist was only out to about 80% semi span, which also contributed to the tip stalling tendencies. "

[DoKGonZo]

Close.

http://www.anycities.com/user/j22/j22/lednicer.htm (the PDF article)

This article is a present day analysis of various WW2 fighters by an aerodynamicist, and it does explain why there were two such divergent impressions of the Fw from flight tests (RAF and USAAF).

You're 0-fer-2 so far.

[Timofei]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Close.

http://www.anycities.com/user/j22/j22/lednicer.htm (the PDF article)

This article is a present day analysis of various WW2 fighters by an aerodynamicist, and it does explain why there were two such divergent impressions of the Fw from flight tests (RAF and USAAF).

You're 0-fer-2 so far.

Actually it does not explain: " The reason for this reported difference in non-manoeuvring stall is unknown".

Both reports admitted that the Fw190 stalled abruptly when manoeuvring.

You could actually read the links you provide.

[jaxxo]

Proof:

190D9 vs P51D k/d 1.34
190D9 vs P47N k/d 2.0
190D9 vs La7 k/d 1.06
190D9 vs Spit 16 k/d 1.53

109K vs P51D k/d 2.0
109K vs P47N k/d 1.37
109K vs La7 k/d 1.44
109K vs Spit 16 k/d 1.57

From current tour...stats mean nada from a players perspective..take those SAME 109 drivers and put them in p51's and watch those numbers jump way up..they fly 109 for a more challenging ride..although i dont believe the 109 is porked at all (minus the flap argument) i can see both sides of the argument. Want some changes? have all the uber pilots drive la7's only for one tour and than check the bbs..u will see some serious whining

Htc has its hands full for sure trying to maintain equilibrium..a simple explanation for why the 109 flaps are not modeled would be nice, but i think the response from the players wouldnt be...

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Timofei
Actually it does not explain: " The reason for this reported difference in non-manoeuvring stall is unknown".

Both reports admitted that the Fw190 stalled abruptly when manoeuvring.

You could actually read the links you provide.

You're real cute with the selective omission.

The rest of the paragraph - the part you chose not to read - explains it nicely. Under high load the wing deforms and accelerates the stall. Which is why it stalled sharply during flight test but was gentle at low-speeds when landing.

Despite your IntardNet 101 tactics, your initial rant about no one providing data has been proven false.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by jaxxo
...

Htc has its hands full for sure trying to maintain equilibrium..a simple explanation for why the 109 flaps are not modeled would be nice, but i think the response from the players wouldnt be...

Pyro said the 109 flaps were supposed to have been fixed by the latest rev by it got left out by accident. I forget what thread that was in - but it was like a month ago. I expect that fix to be part of the next update.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo



As for the 38 ... yeah ... it should be the ultimate EZ-Mode ride in this game and it surely isn't.

 

On the contrary, it is the ultimate EZ Mode plane in AH.



ack-ack

[Krusty]

Now, any number of long term hardcore P-38 flyers have argued these points for years. There have been VERY heated disagreements between Dale and several of the aforementioned P-38 flyers over all of the above points. However, I have yet to see anyone of any consequence seriously claim that HTC has some sort of conspiracy going on to handicap the P-38.

Exactly!! An issue is an issue. An argument is an argument. A complaint is a complaint. All of these things can happen and still not be a conspiracy. There IS no freakin' conspiracy!!!! There's just problems with several key flight models, the WORST being the ones that get complained about so much (the LW rides).

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
On the contrary, it is the ultimate EZ Mode plane in AH.

Hats off to you, then Ack. I can't do squat in that plane - except be a bigger target.  Which is odd because I do great in other slow-rolling planes - even attack bombers - somehow the P38 just doesn't resonate for me, though. If they add the missing 250hp I'd probably try it again - that'd be a speedy beast.

[wetrat]

Somehow I doubt 250hp would make a significant difference on such a big, heavy, draggy airplane

And a 109 is only as good as the pilot. In other rides, the plane can make up what the pilot lacks. I can fly and fight in 109's just fine (actually, pretty well), so logic would have me believe that anyone else can too. Just fix my damn flaps~!

[Simaril]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Close.

http://www.anycities.com/user/j22/j22/lednicer.htm (the PDF article)

This article is a present day analysis of various WW2 fighters by an aerodynamicist, and it does explain why there were two such divergent impressions of the Fw from flight tests (RAF and USAAF).

You're 0-fer-2 so far.

This is stunning to me. It really explains why there are divergent reports, and reinforces the idea that the 190 had sudden stall tendencies (esp under G loads).

It also supports the current flight model for the 190s.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo
Hats off to you, then Ack. I can't do squat in that plane - except be a bigger target.  Which is odd because I do great in other slow-rolling planes - even attack bombers - somehow the P38 just doesn't resonate for me, though. If they add the missing 250hp I'd probably try it again - that'd be a speedy beast.

Really?  Maybe it's just me but I find it very similiar in flying characteristics to the P-38J from AW4W, with maybe the nod going to AW4W FR P-38J being a little tougher to fly than the AH P-38s.  



ack-ack

[hogenbor]

Originally posted by ghi
Well said,  

But i think the game makes most revenue on North American market, soo the most of the cutomers are happy,

How can you imagine a scenario  in ToD, where Allies get nailed bad?

  Is like those Hollywood"s Happy ending stories, if would end up bad, peoples can't eat their poopcorn, and ask for money back by the end of the movie,
   Yee,  Bruce Willis suposed to play in "Titanic" and save them all

I can hear the thin ice creak here...