Author Topic: Is it just me, or is this a really bad idea...  (Read 714 times)

Offline Seagoon

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Is it just me, or is this a really bad idea...
« on: February 17, 2006, 07:49:27 PM »
Ok, I thought allowing the technology transfers to China during the Clinton Administration was about the high point for an administration allowing commerce to undermine national security, but it looks like the Bush administration may actually have found a way to go one better...

Lawmakers Seek Review of Dubai Ports World Deal

WASHINGTON (AP) -- U.S. lawmakers formally asked the Bush administration Thursday to reconsider its approval of a sale giving a company in the United Arab Emirates control over significant operations at six major American ports.

The lawmakers, including four senators and three House members, sharply criticized the UAE as inconsistent in its support of U.S. anti-terrorism efforts.

They also said the country was a key transfer point for shipments of nuclear components sent to Iran, North Korea and Libya and was one of only three nations that had recognized the Taliban as Afghanistan's legitimate government.

"Outsourcing the operations of our largest ports to a country with a dubious record on terrorism is a homeland security and commerce accident waiting to happen," said Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y. "The administration needs to take another look at this deal."

The Bush administration defended its approval of the sale. A spokesman for the White House National Security Council, Frederick Jones, said Thursday that security implications of the deal were "rigorously reviewed."

The Associated Press reported Saturday that government-owned Dubai Ports World had won approval for the $6.8 billion deal from a secretive U.S. panel that considers security risks of foreign companies buying or investing in American industry.

Since then, a growing faction in Congress wants the White House to reconsider its approval of DP World's purchase of the London-based Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co., which British shareholders approved Monday.

The British firm, the world's fourth-largest ports company, runs commercial operations at shipping terminals in New York, New Jersey, Baltimore, New Orleans, Miami and Philadelphia.

The Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States reviewed the transaction and did not object. The committee, run by the Treasury Department, also includes officials from the departments of Defense, Justice, Commerce, State and Homeland Security.

Although it declined to comment on the committee's decision last week, the Treasury Department said Thursday the consensus of the panel's 12 members was that the sale did not present national security problems. The review included an assessment from U.S. intelligence agencies, the department said.

"Clearly no responsibility of government is more important than protecting the national security," the department said in a statement.

Critics have complained that control over port operations by DP World could endanger U.S. security. They cite the UAE's history as an operational and financial base for the hijackers who carried out the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks against New York and Washington.

The lawmakers pressing the White House on Thursday included Sens. Schumer, Tom Coburn, R-Okla., Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., and Chris Dodd, D-Conn., and Reps. Chris Shays, R-Conn., Vito Fossella, R-N.Y., and Mark Foley, R-Fla.

On Wednesday, the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said he spoke to senior White House officials, whom he declined to identify, and urged them to review the purchase. King said he believed the White House took the issue "very seriously and will look into it."

Treasury Secretary John Snow, asked during a budget hearing Wednesday about the committee's approval, said he was not permitted to discuss specific transactions the panel considers.
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
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Offline Toad

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Is it just me, or is this a really bad idea...
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2006, 07:56:27 PM »
Surely you've read about the fall of the Roman Empire, right?

Well, see... they set this precedent and other Empires feel duty bound to follow it.  ;)
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Offline SOB

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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2006, 07:59:11 PM »
Yeah, I think giving any company from a country in the Middle East, regardless of their status with us, control over operations at any of our ports.  Hell, I'm not sure that giving that control to any company based in another country is a good idea.

BTW...I think there's another thread on this here somewhere if you were looking for opinions.
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2006, 08:03:59 PM »
I got an idea! Let's get the Burgundians, Visigoths and Huns to serve as our army! We can just hire them as needed!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Nash

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Is it just me, or is this a really bad idea...
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2006, 08:12:44 PM »
It's not only insane, it's crazy.

I'm not sure how a nation could be considered sovereign while its access points are controlled by foreigners. That alone is sorta really dumbfounding to me.

Especially in light of the fact that the vast majority of the guys responsible for 9/11 were (this may shock you)  Saudies - the very same folks who are now going to be in control of the ports.

But hey, when lacking funds, a little 1.6 billion dollar injection into the national purse never hurt nobody. I mean, there are bills to pay and all...

Why NOT offset such wreckless financial mismanagement by letting foreign countries control access into your country?

Makes perfect sense.

Offline Stringer

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2006, 08:30:11 PM »
Forget about the ME stuff.  If these guys don't know how to squeeze the most out of the infrastructure there it won't matter if they blew it up by a bomb or by mismanagement, the affect will be equally disastrous.

LA and Long Beach are already at or near capacity.  Oakland, Tacamo, and Seattle will be at or near capacity within 2-3 years.  If the ports get mismanaged (not saying there isn't some of that now), then the affect on our economy will be the same as if they had sabatoged them.

As noted in an article in the HBR just this month,  

Quote
if US protectionists want to stem the tide of imports from China the best strategy is not through the imposition of quotas or tarriffs, but through the active backing of efforts to hinder port expansion in the US.

Offline FUNKED1

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Is it just me, or is this a really bad idea...
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2006, 08:51:00 PM »
It's like the cherry on top of an 8-year sundae of incompetence.

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2006, 09:08:57 PM »
Saudi Arabia is not UAE.

I noted that this article does not detail what services will be provided by the company. They will not 'control' the ports, they will operate logistics of some operations.

I also noted that the article does not detail how many US and UK firms are doing business in the economic significant oil infrastucture of UAE.

Business and investment breed mutual interests and partnerships, not terror.

The security, financial and logistics qualifications of this company were vetted and approved by many organizations whose sole purposes are to protect the interests of the US. If politicians squash this contract, then you have idiot politicians who are more dangerous to the nation than any foreign enemy.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2006, 09:39:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
The security, financial and logistics qualifications of this company were vetted...


I've heard the opposite, and that the people involved not only weren't vetted, but that the procedure with which these future port operators vette their employees were also not, erhm vetted.

It goes without saying that I'm probably wrong, but could you shed a little more light on this?

Also....

"If politicians squash this contract, then you have idiot politicians who are more dangerous to the nation than any foreign enemy."

Well, that's some serious stuff. But if I may be so bold as to point out that there are a whole host of nations whose ports are NOT operated by foreigners, may I then enquire as to why you think that allowing foreigners to control a nation's ports equates to more security than those nations who don't have the benefit of having their ports controlled by foreigners, thus vulnerable to a threat "more dangerous to the nation than any foreign enemy?"

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2006, 09:49:52 PM »
would it be easier for a terrorist supported by UAE corporation insider to smuggle a WMD into a US port managed by this firm?
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Offline Gunthr

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Is it just me, or is this a really bad idea...
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2006, 09:52:33 PM »
Absolutely crazy.  I just don't see how the administration could even think about letting the company from the UAE secure our ports.  I'd like to hear an explanation...  and I want it stopped.  The UAE doesn't even recognise Israel.  The UAE has been far too close to terrorists in the past.  All they would have to do is pass on info and the damage is done.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2006, 10:12:40 PM by Gunthr »
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Offline Rolex

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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2006, 10:22:41 PM »
Nash, many countries do indeed use foreign companies for logistical support in their ports.

The company operates about 20 container terminals around the world in:

Dominican Republic
Hong Kong
Venezuela
Germany
Romania    
Morocco    
Saudi Arabia    
Djibouti    
U.A.E.
India
China
Malaysia
South Korea
Australia

Some of them were operated by CSX (an American company...) and purchased by Dubai Ports World.

Hutchinson-Whampoa Limited (a Hong Kong company...) operates ports here:

Argentina
Bahamas
Panama
Mexico
United Kingdom
The Netherlands
Poland
Germany
Belgium
Tanzania
Thailand
Myanmar
Indonesia
Korea
Pakistan

Dubau Ports is not operating port security, taking over Homeland Security functions, staffing the Coast Guard, doing customs searches or immigration functions or replacing Longshoremen.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2006, 11:20:10 PM »
another manifestation of corporate control of governments. this is what we get when we have a political system loyal not to national intrests but instead to the money provided by corporate lobbyists.

this BS has to be stopped. That contract should be shredded and the committiee that approved it given an indefinite tour of the facilities at guantanamo. The lobbyists should be exiled to the sudan and the traitorous sons of scum in the state dept that brokered it should be exposed and tried for treason.
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Offline Yeager

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« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2006, 11:52:28 PM »
is it possible hangtime, that we are in the process of experiencing an acute system failure due to the constitutional founders failure to prevent politics from becoming a personal wealth generating profession?

Or was is indeed, even a failure?

Perhaps those same founders left open the opportunity for themselves to accumulate wealth in service to the country.  If so, we are screwed.

Any constitutional scholars lurking about?
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Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2006, 12:03:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
is it possible hangtime, that we are in the process of experiencing an acute system failure


At almost every level of government.  And the scary thing is that the more screwed up govt. gets, the less people are willing or able to do something about it.  Sheeple.