On Pat Robertson (especially for MT)

[~Caligula~]

Originally posted by DieAz
none.

death is inevitable.

here is a link
(may or may not be safe to open, dunno. it blocked some popups)  

Death is Inevitable

great read,thanks for posting

[~Caligula~]

Seagoon

I don`t know You and I will problably never meet You. But I can tell You that You`ve earned my respect trough the few posts  that I`ve read here. I consider You a very kind person with a great knowledge and a great understanding of the world we live in.
But I think the way You are is because that`s who You are. It doesn`t have to come from christ or any other deity. You do your good deeds as a pastor because being part of that organization makes it easier for You to do them.
What I see on the other hand, is that most people use the curtain of religion just to hide behind. To make themselves belive that they can do whatever they please if they go to church, confess, eat kosher food, keep shabbat , chop off heads of infidels...etc.
I find the people who are the most deeply religious have the biggest tendency to do some truely f-d up things. I only saw this in movies, but as far as I know maffia gangsters were pretty good churchgoers.Go to church, all your sins forgiven, let`s go whack someone else. And what happend here in the settlement Amona just a few weeks ago, is way beyond my understandings. Religious youth clashed with the police and the army in their belief that they have to save the land that god`s given to them. Stonethrowers....imho a stonethrower is nothing, just that. Be jewish, arab or whatever,makes no difference.
I know I will never trust any religious person because I`d think he has moral standards based on religion. They only justify interfering other people`s life with their faith.
I just want to be left alone to live my life the way I want to live it.To be a good man. I have a sence of right and wrong, and I don`t need to be scared with punishment or promised rewards to know that what I`m doing is right or wrong.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Considering that the laws of almost the entirety of Western Civilisation are based on the morals provided by Judeo-Christian values, your statement gets a little weak.  Punishment and reward are simply made more physical rather than spiritual.

[xrtoronto]

again, that represents my feelings too caligula

[~Caligula~]

Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Considering that the laws of almost the entirety of Western Civilisation are based on the morals provided by Judeo-Christian values, your statement gets a little weak.  Punishment and reward are simply made more physical rather than spiritual.

I`m talking about reward of eternal life in heaven or damnation in hell. And even christians can`t even decide what`s really up. Will a protestant ever tell u that a catholic will make it to heaven? It doesn`t even matter if that guy is a good human being...if he doesn`t go to my church, he`s gonna hell...no matter what.
And I think that the the western civilisation being based on religious values is BS. Untill the age of elightment the west was all about going in stupid f-n wars about religion. Nobody cared about human rights or any of that. It was about controlling the masses of people with and for religion.
If god does exist he`s long forgotten about this insignifican spot in the universe. It`s up to us to make it a pleasent place to live(heaven if u wish), or a living hell.We have every tool and mean to make it either way.And arguing, warring, about what god intended us to do in the first place will only get us to the 2nd choice.

[StarOfAfrica2]

You are welcome to your views.  I was merely making the point that most of our modern laws (and those have progressed through the history of Western Civilization) are based around the 10 commandments, most of which are simply common sense rules for any group that wants to live together and have their civilization survive.  I wont argue their deific origins.  

As for what people do or have done in the name of "religion", well we are human after all.  And there are numerous warnings about following "false prophets".  I personally dont care if a man in Protestant, Catholic, or any other type of denomination of Christian.  There is only 1 rule for getting into heaven.  Anyone can do it, what brand you have has nothing to do with it.  It is human nature to twist things to suit themselves.  If you want truth you have to actually use your brain.  Sometimes the most complex seeming problems have the simplest answers.

[~Caligula~]

There is only 1 rule for getting into heaven.

And what is that rule?

[Sandman]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~
And what is that rule?

John 3:16

[nirvana]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~
And what is that rule?

Confess your sins before you die, sucka.

[~Caligula~]

Originally posted by Sandman
John 3:16

exactly what i`m talking about....belive what I belive in or yer screwed.who you might be makes no difference, u have to belive in jesus.
what an utter BS
fortunatelly christians gave up getting their points trough with red hot iron.

[StarOfAfrica2]

Look, I'm not knocking your beliefs.  You have the right to choose what you want.  You just seem awfully angry or bitter about something there.  Just curious.  Why is it you think that God (supposing for one second I'm right and He exists) should not have the right to make the rules?  Assuming the existence of God, he created all this, and us.  Why SHOULDNT we have to do it his way if we want to go on after this life?  All He asked is 1 thing.  1 rather small thing, in the grand design.  Believe.  Thats it.  Just Believe.

Well, technically I guess you could say its 2 things, because acceptance is necessary.  But if you really believe its all true, I mean if you KNOW deep down where it truly matters that its all for real, why would you choose to throw it away?  If you believe He went through that for us, and loves us that much, why would you choose otherwise?  Stubborness?  Perversity?  

We do have free will.  We have the right to choose.  God never told Christains to go out and torture others who dont believe the same.  Someone human came up with that.  I can pretty much promise that God had nothing to do with the Crusades, other than someone dragging his name around and pretending to have his best interests at heart.  I dont see much of His hand there.  

I think this song says it all.

This is God

Hey, this is God
Can I please have your attention
There's a need for intervention
Man, I'm disappointed in what I'm seeing
Yeah, this is God
You fight each other in my name
Treat life like it's a foolish game
I'd say you've got the wrong idea

Oh, all I'm asking for is love
Well I've seen you hurt yourselves enough
Oh, I've been waiting on a change in you

Yeah, this is God
I've given everything to you
But look at what you do
to the world that I created
This is God
What's with this attitude and hate
You grow more ignorant with age
You had it made, now look at all you've wasted

Oh, all I'm asking for is love
Oh, I've seen you hurt yourselves enough
Oh, I've been waiting on a change in you, yeah

I know your every thought, your heart and soul and every move
There are so many consequences to the things you do

All I'm asking for is love
Haven't you hurt yourselves enough
Oh, I've been waiting on a change in you
A change in you, oh
This is God


Like I said.  You are welcome to disbelieve.  You are welcome to believe something else.  You can choose whatever you like.  Railing against the sky because its blue doenst change it.  Choosing only to look at it when its cloudy doesnt change the fact that its still blue behind the clouds.  Choosing to see it only at night doesnt change the fact that it would be blue if there were light to illuminate it.  Truth doesnt change.  Merely our point of view.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~

fortunatelly christians gave up getting their points trough with red hot iron.

Now we have aircraft and tanks.

[~Caligula~]

oh boy...
StarofAfrica: thanks for all your efforts but I`ll pass on it.

Sandman: I was talking about christians twisting the arms of people that they belived they had to saved...if it meant twisting it untill they`re dead..well so be it.
Religion of love...

[storch]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hi Caligula,

 

Given your above assessment, I'm curious, what exactly do you believe I became a Pastor for?

I left a job a stable and very lucrative job as a systems administrator in 1997 just a year before I was finally going to be able to make the jump to head of Information Systems for a D.C. area N.G.O. I moved away from a beautiful house  in the horse farm area of Northern Virginia with its own fishing pond in the backyard, I left behind friends, and stability to move to a nasty apartment in the suburbs of Philadelphia in order to begin 4 years of seminary and get a second Masters. In funding that education, my wife and I spent all of our savings and most of our stock options, etc. Eventually after I graduated, and received a call to plant a church in Fayetteville, NC, I moved and left behind good friends and stability yet again, to embark upon a career where we will never earn even half of what we were earning in our last year in Northern Virginia.

Today, I work more hours than I've ever worked in my life, I see less of my family than I did in seminary, I work every week with four consecutive drop-dead writing deadlines, requiring hours of study and prep, that I have to meet regardless of the circumstances. I counsel at least twice a week for several hours (I do not charge for counseling) and we are usually talking about people with big problems, usually after a session they feel better and I feel emotionally drained. I do hospital and prison visitations, and family visitations on a regular basis. I run food to the sick and babysit the kids of the church when the women are meeting. I do funerals, and grieve with the grieving. We provide whatever support we can to wives with deployed husbands and are currently supporting several people without jobs and helping to pay for extra insurance and medical bills. I help with moving families on a moments notice and crisis calls to our house after midnight aren't uncommon. I am also the man who has to go and tell wives that their husbands have been seriously wounded or killed in action. I could sleep or cry at any given moment in the day, but I don't. I drink more coffee than I ever have in my life. By comparison Server administration and user support at its worst was a cakewalk.

And yet, I am not complaining. I quite literally wouldn't leave my calling or my congregation for a million dollars. As hard as it is, I've been used in genuinely helping more people over the past 4 years than I have in the previous 32. And none of that is due one wit to my being high and mighty or "righteous." Far from it, I am just a mere sinner saved by grace, but I do serve a mighty God. Through His ordinary means of grace, I've been blessed to see marriages that were DOA turn around, people turn from lives being eaten up by drugs and alcohol, the lost and friendless gain hope, direction, and companionship, I've seen the faithless, selfish and despairing who have been serving idols that were comsuming them, turn to Christ and begin living faithful lives of loving Christ, dying to self, and serving others and seeking to be a blessing, rather than a curse to those around them.

Now in 36 years of traveling, and learning, and working and even dabbling with a host of other religions and sects, I've never seen anything else with that kind of power or ability to effect the deliverance that comes through the one who says "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." (Matt. 11:29-30) And that, and not hopes of gaining riches that soon perish, is why I answered "I will go, send me" to the command in Matt. 28:18-20.

- SEAGOON

seagoon the above sounds like a surefire formula for pastoral burnout and possibly hurting others, aside from your immediate family members, people who by now have surely come to love and depend upon you.  how much time do you take to "be still"?

[ChickenHawk]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~

Sandman: I was talking about christians twisting the arms of people that they belived they had to saved...if it meant twisting it untill they`re dead..well so be it.
Religion of love...

You've fallen for one of the biggest deceptions that the world has seen for 2000 years.  The deception is that people who force their own views on others are Christians.  They are not, even though they may claim to be and in all probability believe they are.

God has given all free choice.  Any man who hinders the free will of another is not a man of God.    He said "by their fruits ye shall know them."