Author Topic: N. texas shooters  (Read 1874 times)

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2006, 10:44:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
.308 is a far better deer cartridge than .223. Those energy stats tell all.

Pheasants? Pah. South Dakota, Kansas and Iowa are where it happens. Anywhere else is an "also ran".


Whats the average white tail deer weigh 100lbs or less?
And the 223 was made for killing people wich on average weigh in at 160lbs or there a bouts.

Of coures a larger calibur will do better heck I would bet money that a 338 lapua would do much better than the 308.
Its all about shot placement and if you can can shoot worth a dang you can take white tails with a 223.

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2006, 11:54:42 PM »
Added another gun to the collection.
Got a springfeild XD 45gap :)



Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
N. texas shooters
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2006, 12:05:53 AM »
iz pretty :)
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
N. texas shooters
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2006, 06:27:43 AM »
Sorry, I forgot. You're from Texas and you're talking about "sandwich deer."

It just amazing how unsung the .223 is as the world's best deer cartridge, isn't it? I mean you'd think it'd get way more press than it does.

The fact that it's the absolute minimum cartridge in just about every state's regulations is just mean and unfair too.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Airscrew

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4808
N. texas shooters
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2006, 08:24:53 AM »
Hey Toad, .223 is just fine for deer,  just flip your selector to Auto and fire a couple of bursts, you'll get your deer :rolleyes:

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
N. texas shooters
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2006, 11:07:02 AM »
Robert Ruark wrote a great novel called "Use Enough Gun". It's a great read in and of itself and it has the bonus of conveying some of the timeless truths of hunting itself. Recommended.

Quote
This is more than the record of a lifetime's bag; it is the story of a man's education as a hunter. The lessons that Ruark learned from his grandfather still applied when he shot his first lion on safari in Africa, more than twenty years later. Then there were new lessons to be learned from Harry Selby, the Kenyan professional who became Ruark's close friend. Ruark hunted in India and Alaska, in Mozambique and Uganda, Kenya and Tanganyika. SP.




As for the .223, there's a reason that it is at or near the minimum for deer in every state. It's because it's barely adequate.

Oh, it might be OK for the short shots at small deer as our resident Texan suggests. But it's definitely lacking on big deer at long distance. It's under 1000 ft/lbs at 200 yards in the 55 gr loadings and at 300 it's ~760.

Sure isn't something I'd use on a 250 lb live weight Kansas whitetail running at 300 yards, fer shure dude.

And yes, I have taken one of those, thank you very much. Wasn't with a .223 though.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2006, 11:47:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad


Sure isn't something I'd use on a 250 lb live weight Kansas whitetail running at 300 yards, fer shure dude.

 


Only thing to say about the above is Iresponsable at best.
I only take humane shots and trying to get a kill shot at a running target 300yds away is just silly.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 11:51:20 AM by fartwinkle »

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2006, 11:50:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Sorry, I forgot. You're from Texas and you're talking about "sandwich deer."

It just amazing how unsung the .223 is as the world's best deer cartridge, isn't it? I mean you'd think it'd get way more press than it does.

The fact that it's the absolute minimum cartridge in just about every state's regulations is just mean and unfair too.


I fing those that need a larger cartridge are those who frankly cant shoot well.
I guess a tow missil or RPG would be the best huh:huh

A 69grn rnd going 3.200 ft per sec will do just fine on a white tail deer up to 500yds.

I have see clowns out there with 300 win mags that get off a crappy shot and have to track there wounded deer.
I have never had to walk for more than 50ft from point of impact.

hate to be a snob but if you cant make a clean kill take up another hobby.

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2006, 11:54:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Robert Ruark wrote a great novel called "Use Enough Gun". It's a great read in and of itself and it has the bonus of conveying some of the timeless truths of hunting itself. Recommended.
 



Im willing to bet he is talking about large african game as in rhinos and lions and such.

Making that compareson to white tail deer hunting at short range is silly.

Maybe next year I will get hold of an M1-A1 abrams now that should be enough gun:rofl

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
N. texas shooters
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2006, 11:56:16 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fartwinkle
Only thing to say about the above is Iresponsable at best.
I only take humane shots and trying to get a kill shot at a running target 300yds away is just silly.


Lol. This must be the old Towd.

Here, think on this. 5 elk taken, closest about 250, farthest 475. Only the close one was standing still. Never shot at an elk that wasn't bagged.

I can't help it if you didn't shoot at running jackrabbits with a .22 as a kid. There's a difference between shooters and riflemen I guess.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
N. texas shooters
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2006, 12:01:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fartwinkle
hate to be a snob but if you cant make a clean kill take up another hobby.


Well, you are a snob; at least you're an ignorant one though.

Bullet  Muzzle 100   200   300   400    500
 69 gr 3000    2720 2457 2209 1975 1758 Velocity
 69 gr 1379   1133   925   747   598   473  

Factory loaded .223 Rem 69 gr has < 500 foot pounds of energy at 500 yards. Not to mention being 45 inches low at 500 when zeroed for 200. Yeah, GREAT deer round. NOT.

I just suprised you're not writing articles for the gun magazines with all you knowledge.

 
 :rofl
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2006, 12:06:31 PM »

Offline GtoRA2

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8339
N. texas shooters
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2006, 12:07:58 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Lol. This must be the old Towd.

Here, think on this. 5 elk taken, closest about 250, farthest 475. Only the close one was standing still. Never shot at an elk that wasn't bagged.

I can't help it if you didn't shoot at running jackrabbits with a .22 as a kid. There's a difference between shooters and riflemen I guess.


He spells to good to be the old towd, plus he does not use neocon as every other word.


It's clearly Mrsniperblack.


It's all in his posting style and how in every post he has to be better then everyone else. Go read the roadwarrior thread for a good laugh, this time instead of a supersniper he is an X cop.

Won't be as fun to watch the melt down this time though, the MPs I am sure will kill nuke it.

Offline fartwinkle

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 551
N. texas shooters
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2006, 12:10:27 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well, you are a snob; at least you're an ignorant one though.

Bullet  Muzzle 100   200   300   400    500
 69 gr 3000    2720 2457 2209 1975 1758 Velocity
 69 gr 1379   1133   925   747   598   473  

Factory loaded .223 Rem 69 gr has < 500 foot pounds of energy at 500 yards. Not to mention being 45 inches low at 500 when zeroed for 200. Yeah, GREAT deer round. NOT.

I just suprised you're not writing articles for the gun magazines with all you knowledge.

 
 :rofl



Let me quote the sierra reloading manual for ya on a 69grn.


using Viht powder at 26.5 gns you have a muzzel velo of 3.100 and energy of 1.473 ft lbs.

These are striaght from the manual not outta someones arse.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2006, 12:13:38 PM by fartwinkle »

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
N. texas shooters
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2006, 12:11:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fartwinkle
Im willing to bet he is talking about large african game as in rhinos and lions and such.



And I'm willing to bet you've never read the book and have no idea what's in it.

Ignorance is bliss.

Enjoy your bliss.

Or educate yourself.

.22 Caliber "Big Game" Rifle Cartridges by Chuck Hawks

Quote
When Remington introduced the .223, which one month later was adopted by the U.S. military as the 5.56mm NATO cartridge, they intended it for use on varmints and loaded bullets specifically intended for that purpose. But many inexperienced hunters falsely assumed that if the .223 were good enough for the Armed Forces to use on enemy soldiers, it must be powerful enough for deer hunting.

Nothing could be farther from the truth, as the requirements for a modern military cartridge are quite different from those of a modern medium game cartridge. Hunters do not use fully automatic weapons, or lay down fire-suppressing barrages, or have ammunition air lifted to them by helicopter. Hunters are not interested in causing "casualties," they need one shot kills.

Use my "Optimal Ranges for Big Game" chart to compare the killing power of the .223 Remington with a 60 grain Nosler Partition bullet (probably the deadliest bullet suitable for the caliber) to cartridges like the .243 Winchester, 6mm Remington, .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, or even the old .25-35. You will find that the numbers are not encouraging.

.22 caliber bullets have some serious drawbacks for use on medium game such as deer, antelope, sheep, and goats. Most obvious is their very small cross sectional area...

...I have spent time discussing the .224 TTH to illustrate some of the drawbacks inherent in even the best .22 caliber big game cartridge. To make any .22 caliber rifle cartridge even marginally suitable for North American deer and antelope hunting requires sacrifices in areas such as bullet cross sectional area, sectional density, killing power, and availability of rifles, ammunition, and reloading components for precious little gain in recoil reduction.

Many experts believe that even the popular .24 caliber cartridges are inadequate for deer hunting due to insufficient bullet cross sectional area. I am not among them. I do think, however, that .243/6mm represents the minimum practical bore diameter for hunting North American deer, antelope, sheep, and goats.


But what does Chuck Hawks know, right? I mean you are WAY more qualified than he is.

And then there's that pesky FACT that the .223 is an absolute minimum cartridge for deer BY LAW in about every state that allows deer hunting. What do all those Game and Fish departments know anyway, right?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!