Author Topic: secret weapons of the Luft  (Read 1763 times)

whels1

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secret weapons of the Luft
« on: December 18, 2000, 11:47:00 AM »
pretty cool show last night.
NO RAM u cant have a TA 182 with A2A
guided rockets.

Offline Westy

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secret weapons of the Luft
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2000, 12:41:00 PM »
   A fun show. The usual over-dramatic, over-hype and LW over-adoration with the "what if's..."

 I think RAM really deserves an HE-162 that took an experienced pilot. And this plane ia a MUST for adding modelling manufacturing boners to AH with it's wooden wings and no-hold glue.  

 -Westy

Offline Jekyll

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secret weapons of the Luft
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2000, 05:12:00 PM »
Westy, by any chance are you thinking of the Ta-154 'Moskito' ?


Offline Animal

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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2000, 05:20:00 PM »
No, he means the german jet plane made for the Nazi youth. It was supposed to be better than the Me-262, but cheaper and easier to manufacture. It only had wooden wings tho, and they were glued to the fuselage. One hispano ping, it down goes the jet.

It also had 1 30mm cannon, dunno about how much ammunition.

Nath-BDP

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secret weapons of the Luft
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2000, 05:37:00 PM »
The Ta 183 had 4x 20mm I think. (I'm at work no books here).

Ta 183s actually flew after the war, since Kurt Tank defected to Argentina after the war. He built and flew some Ta 183s there, they were very good aircraft and had better performance than the 262 iirc. I can post the numbers when I get home.


Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2000, 07:00:00 PM »
Hi

He162 mounted 2 MK108 30mm cannon with 100rpg
or it could be fitted with 2 MG151/20 with 120rpg. The wing snapping problem was only on the prototypes, and the very few production types did not have this problem. He162 shot down 1 Tempest in the last few weeks of the war. It was also fitted with an ejection seat. It had very good control harmony and an extremly high rate of roll even over 400mph. Its major shortcoming was range/endurance.

Ta183 is something else entirely, and is a plane whose potential performance if actually built would not have been betterd until F86/Mig15. And yes the Mig15 was based on the Ta183, yes I said based. Mig15 was based on Ta183.   As for its armament the earliest ones were to be fitted with 4 MK108 cannon, but there was provision for mounting the new series of revolver cannon the MG213 20/30mm, these weapons had rates of fire in excess of 1000rpm and had higher muzzle velocity compared to MG151/20 and much better than MK108. MG213 was ready for full production in summer 45. The post war British 30mm ADEN cannon was directly based on this entirely new German type of cannon, as were the French DEFA and US Pontiac M39 20mm cannon, which IIRC was the 20mm cannon fitted to late F86, F100, and USN F8 Crusaders.
Rhurstal/Kramer X-4 wire-guided AAM had a range of several kilometers, generally  between 2 and 3.5km . It carried a 44lb warhead, which could be set off by the pilot, a contact fuze or aucustic fuze. This weapon was in production at the end of the war, but certainly not in regular combat use. However, several Fw190 were fitted with the missles and associated control equipment in fall and winter 44/45 to combat test vs US bomber formations, I can find no information on how they did in those tests.

thanks GRUNHERZ

Offline Westy

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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2000, 07:20:00 PM »
No Jekyll. That one also suffered from the glue/wood problem. The HE-162 People Fighter had a metal fuselage, but the it had wooden wings and tail that were glued togtehr AND glued onto the fuselage. It had a prospensity to fall apart in the air too.

 -Westy

Offline putz

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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2000, 08:35:00 PM »
Anyone interested in buying or trading for a me262 stick or a gunsight from a me262? or how about some kraut fighter pilots medals also got some flight books from the pilot and a map case with map of southern france from the same wreck I think.

Offline Andy Bush

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secret weapons of the Luft
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2000, 08:49:00 PM »
FWIW...

This is the Ta-183.

 

Some think the Rooskies may have tried to build it...

 

In the 50's, Tank helped the Argentineans build this, the Pulqui II...

 

It didn't fly for sour apples.

Andy

Offline hazed-

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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2000, 08:52:00 PM »
putz how much for me262 stick?
interested in flight books if original.
post your asking price  

hazed

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2000, 09:22:00 PM »
Andy,

The Pulqui II was based on Ta183 design but had changes done to it by Kurt Tank that completly messed up the flying qualities of the plane. You see Kurt Tank didnt design the Ta183, it was designed by one of his assistants, a fellow that went on to great sucess in the post-war US aerospace industry, working for North American/Rockwell I think. Anyway back to why the PulquiII sucked. You will notice it has a shoulder mounted wing, where the Ta183 is a mid-wing design. Im not aerodynamics expert but the source I read stated that the new wing position created aerodynamic disturbances to the T tail causing a nasty and rare type of stall where the plane simply drops straight down with very little chance of recovery. Tanks inexperience with the Ta183 led him to make this extreme redesign error. The picture you posted of the Russian Ta183 seems pretty authentic as a midway design between Ta183 and Mig15. notice the 2 wing fences, just like Mig15.

thanks GRUNHERZ

Offline SKurj

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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2000, 11:56:00 PM »
AHH!! so the truth comes out... the FW did inspire every jet aircraft ever made as well!!


AKskurj

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2000, 12:21:00 AM »
Hi

Yes, Mig15 and Pulqui II are direct descendants of Ta183.

thanks GRUNHERZ

Offline Jigster

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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2000, 03:12:00 AM »
German engineering + British technology = MiG-15.

MiG did come up with the wing fences but the engine was a direct copy of a British design. Not like the first time they did it before though  

Offline -lynx-

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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2000, 03:25:00 AM »
I'm really getting tired of this crap - Russkies stole this-Russkies stole that. Unless I'm missing something here Kurt Tank did piss off to Argentina after the war, right? Unless I'm very much mistaken (and I know I am not) Argentina was not a part of Soviet Union. How the f**k MIG15 eneded up "being inspired" by some KT design or other???

 
Quote
You see Kurt Tank didnt design the Ta183, it was designed by one of his assistants, a fellow that went on to great sucess in the post-war US aerospace industry, working for North American/Rockwell I think.

Just to remind you - North American built F86. MIG15 was not built by North American (or Rockwell for that matter...)

I think HTC should plaster LW planes with warnings like "Flying FW190 may impair your ability to reason". *sigh*