secret weapons of the Luft

[GRUNHERZ]

HI

Lynx the Russians were crazy about the Ta183 design and they specifically sought out anyone at FW who worked on it (so they could kidnap them and force them to work in soviet concentration camps to help build/design new weapons so they could kill people in towns o, like lets say Oxfordshire UK), and their earlier native russian jet designs looked nothing like the Mig15 and its direct competitor, both of which were near dead ringers for ta183. Second If you just get your head out of your ass, youll notice that the Russians arent as arrogant as you seem to be when it comes to adopting and yes outright stealing foreign designs. Lets see some foreign aircraft and technogoies designs that the USSR made nearly exact copies of: DC3/C47, B29, Rolls-Royce Nene jet engine, the whole BT and T34-T55 tank series used a suspension system that eas developed by J.Walter Christie in the USA, They copied V2s - the scud is little more than a modified V2 with integrated fuel tanks and detachable warhead, as the scuds designer freely admited.
As for F86, it was already drawn up in 1945 so it obviously has no direct origin from the Ta183. However the original North American F86 design was a conventional straight wing aircraft, very similar in appearence and performance to the P/F-80. After the war the design was modified to accept a swept wing directy developed from the new German swept wing data coming in at that time. Again this is a widely known fact, which the F86 designers freely admit. The Ta183 designer did not start working for NA/Rockwell till the early fifties, so that should ease you emotional problems regarding F86. These are historical facts that you can easily look up lynx, just calm the hell down and be less arrogant.  

thanks GRUNHERZ

[GRUNHERZ]

whoa  I must apologize for the arrogance of my post.  

[Ping]

 I'm sure that everyone realizes that every time an aircraft is or was shot down, Experts poured over the remains for whatever technology they could "borrow".
 If you stop to think about it....everyone was working together,unwillingly mind you, to get technology to where it is today.
 Aircraft designers were probably the worst for this, American, German or Russian all used captured or borrowed designs.

[Jigster]

Combine the Me-109 and the Spit and what do you get? Thats right, a MiG-1  

- Jig

[Torque]

Well they were the master race that had an Empire that would last for a thousand years er...ok maybe it was a short thirteen but hey who is counting. Slave labour was it just a European tradition?

[JG5_Jerry]

 http://users.visi.net/~djohnson/luft46.html

 

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by -lynx-:
I'm really getting tired of this crap - Russkies stole this-Russkies stole that. Unless I'm missing something here Kurt Tank did piss off to Argentina after the war, right? Unless I'm very much mistaken (and I know I am not) Argentina was not a part of Soviet Union. How the f**k MIG15 eneded up "being inspired" by some KT design or other???

 

Kurt Tank fled to Argentina, but the FW works were captured by the Soviets. They took the prototype TA183 back to the USSR. The MIG 15 is definitely based upon the TA183. The early Russian jets were abortions of prop planes with jet engines stuffed into them.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

 

[This message has been edited by LJK Raubvogel (edited 12-19-2000).]

[-lynx-]

 

Lets see some foreign aircraft and technogoies designs that the USSR made nearly exact copies of: DC3/C47, B29, Rolls-Royce Nene jet engine, the whole BT and T34-T55 tank series used a suspension system that eas developed by J.Walter Christie in the USA, They copied V2s - the scud is little more than a modified V2 with integrated fuel tanks and detachable warhead, as the scuds designer freely admited.

What a load of crap...

DC3/C47 was licenced - modified to take Russian built engines by the design bureau Lisunov, Russian designation Li-2, 2800+ built;

B29 was copied albeit with no licence - Allied US refused to supply this advanced bomber obviously having in mind "after the war" situation. Few B29s landed in Russian Far East after raids on Japan. SU was not at war with Japan at the time - they were "interned"   Hence the birth of T-4 Bull. Loads built and supplied mainly to China (400+);

Rolls-Royce engines? Hmmm... Pass... I guess RR simply sold it to the Soviet Union? We were allied after all...

Christie suspension? Hmmm.. Let me think - German guy Diesel patented the engine (although his engine was supposed to work on coal powder and water mix, not heavy fuel), some unknown Chineese monk invented gunpowder, some Scandinavian bloke did some work on explosives... Hey - that T34 was just plain stolen from all those people. No wonder it's was arguably the best tank of the war - the whole world worked hard designing it...

The whole world is also shamelessly using the internal combustion engine patented by Daimler and Benz, all rearwheel drive vehicles use Cardan(sp?) trasmission etc...

Oh, btw you do know that the master race pinched T-V "Panther" "idea" from those stupid, totally unable to do anything by themselves Russkies, don't you? They still couldn't reproduce a miracle of Russian engine design, 500 hp diesel V2. Funny that  - only Russian tanks sported those powerful, less prone to fire diesels, who did the bastards pinched those from?

And some German chap named von Braun or such like was in charge of the US space program... Didn't he... Err... Designed V2?

And no, Scud missiles (SS1 Western or NR11 Soviet designation) did not have detachable warheads. That was Mr von Braun's design "feature".

Calm down my a**   Learn history not from the History Channel and stop trying to find German ideas as the only source for progress  

thanks, PbICb

[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 12-19-2000).]

[SKurj]

And wasn't it a british engine the germans used to create their first Jet engine?

AKskurj

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by -lynx-:
 What a load of crap...
Christie suspension? Hmmm.. Let me think - German guy Diesel patented the engine (although his engine was supposed to work on coal powder and water mix, not heavy fuel), some unknown Chineese monk invented gunpowder, some Scandinavian bloke did some work on explosives... Hey - that T34 was just plain stolen from all those people. No wonder it's was arguably the best tank of the war - the whole world worked hard designing it...

Um, the Christie torsion bar suspension was first used on his T series (I forget the number) that had detachable treads for high speeds on roads, up to 80mph. The US wasn't interested in tank designs after WWI, so he had a production contract with the Soviets for a small run of his design.

The Soviets continued making copies of his design under the Bt-5 and Bt-7 designations after the contract expired. The system was then used on practically every tank the Soviets produced up into the later part of the century. Even the mega-heavy KV's used the suspension system, using smaller and more numerous road wheels and guiders for rough terrain and the extra weight.

[Fishu]

PPSh 41 is a cheap copy of Finnish Suomi M/31  

[GRUNHERZ]

The point is lynx they arent as arrogant as you seem to be about using other countries technologies to advance their capabaliites.  Unfortunately you are still full of toejam!  

[-lynx-]

That's a nice way to put your point across - you have no facts just somethings you "heard" from here and there and you resort to personal attacks - I'm sorry to have to point this out to you but you Sir do not appear to be a very smart person .


Jig - I miss the point you're trying to make - they never called it anything else, it was Christie suspension all along. BT5s and 7s AFAIK had a provision for driving without tracks, it was dropped on later heavier tanks. But the suspension design obviously worked well enough to be used? Credit was given to the designer - what else did you expect?

[GRUNHERZ]

im sorry you feel that way but it doesnt change the facts lynx, tho i appologize if you were personally offended by my saying ur full of toejam, maybe i went too far with that

[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 12-22-2000).]

[hazed-]

as far as i remember the RR jet engine was given to russia sometime near the end of WW2 for evaluation etc.
whilst personaly i found the few germans i have met a little arrogant about their mechanical genius   , can you really blame them? Lynx give credit where it is due mate.
Im from the UK and i do not in any way support Hitler/Nazi's etc but i am well adjusted enough to realise not all germans during the war were in support either.I dont understand why you have become seemingly angered that germany receives credit for it inventions etc.They did design many weapons of war that have become used world wide.
What is your point? You dont like discussions or what?


hazed

[This message has been edited by hazed- (edited 12-22-2000).]