Author Topic: Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!  (Read 1556 times)

Offline lasersailor184

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« on: February 22, 2006, 09:43:21 AM »
Currently I'm learning about concrete design.  Concrete is an interesting material in that  it is pretty good in compression for it's weight, but it can barely hold any tension by itself.  This is where Rebar comes in.  Rebar is short for Reinforcement Bars.  What these do is they are placed in sections of concrete that would recieve tension forces.  So this way most of the tension force is taken by the steel, and not the concrete.


One day my professor went off on a tangent.  He was part of a crew to figure out what happened to the Murrah Federal Building (OK city bombing target).  

In the process, he found out that the contractors were supposed to extend rebar through the columns, past the far end of the columns to just more then a foot past.  But they didn't.


Had the contractors done this, the blast from the truck bomb would have destroyed the base column, but the building would not have collapsed.

The rebar and the concrete would have deflected a very large amount, but it would not have given out.  Or at least it would have given sufficient time to evacuate the building.


This interesting fact is brought to you by PSU Architectural Engineering Department.
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Offline Airscrew

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2006, 09:48:18 AM »
Just one small example of what happens when government contracts are awarded to the cheapest bidder

Offline lasersailor184

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2006, 09:51:40 AM »
Not necessarily so.  To extend the rebar past the columns is required by code, but it was not enforced anywhere.  Practically no one did it because no inspector would demand or require that that specific code be followed.
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Offline Ripsnort

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2006, 10:11:15 AM »
Where is the lawsuit then?

Offline lasersailor184

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2006, 10:24:54 AM »
Who would the lawsuit be aimed at?  The government?  The contractors?  The Designers?  The Inspectors?

It would just be one large circle jerk in court trying to figure out who was really at fault.
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Offline Bruno

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2006, 10:39:35 AM »
Quote
Had the contractors done this, the blast from the truck bomb would have destroyed the base column, but the building would not have collapsed.


There's a decent documentary on the bombing (IIRC shown on PBS maybe Frontline..? or maybe one of the cable / sat channels...)

Just going from memory, in that documentary the the face of the Murrah Federal Building being glass the pressure wave easily blew through it lifting several of the lower floors up. Along first floor was a horizontal reinforced concrete support 'beam' that was lifted up and then pushed back off the vertical columns by the blast and fell. As the floors came back down they crushed those vertical columns that were already weakened by the blast. As these gave way the building pancaked.

The conclusions reached in this documentary implied that the lack of blast proof glass was the key factor in the buildings collapse and I don't recall any mention of faulty construction in general.

Later today I will see if I can find the title and maybe a transcript...

Offline FUNKED1

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2006, 10:41:27 AM »
Architectural engineer is kinda like military intelligence.  :)

Offline lasersailor184

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2006, 10:48:25 AM »
Hardly Funked, every building you see around you is designed by an Architectural Engineer.  If it was the same as Military Intelligence, millions of people would die every year.



Bruno, isn't it funny how all those documentaries NEVER consult those who actually design and build those buildings?
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Offline Airscrew

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2006, 11:21:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Hardly Funked, every building you see around you is designed by an Architectural Engineer.  If it was the same as Military Intelligence, millions of people would die every year.


Laser, as far as I know we havent had that many Ryder trucks with diesel soaked fertilizer parked in front of building to test that theory.   but we could include malls that have had floors colapse ;)

Offline Ripsnort

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2006, 11:31:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Who would the lawsuit be aimed at?  The government?  The contractors?  The Designers?  The Inspectors?

It would just be one large circle jerk in court trying to figure out who was really at fault.
Thats what lawyers are for, is it not? To figure out how to pilfer as much cash out of anyone to fill their own pockets. ;)

Offline Furious

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2006, 11:50:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
...every building you see around you is designed by an Architectural Engineer...


That statement is pure bull****.

Offline Rolex

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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2006, 12:38:20 PM »
Way back 35 years ago, when I was an engineering student, I would probably have thought this was noteworthy, too. Of course, back then, we had the humility to not even call ourselves engineers until we graduated and had a few years of experience under our belts.

Offline Holden McGroin

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2006, 12:41:02 PM »
Not to mention passing the professional engineering exams.
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Offline Sandman

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2006, 12:42:46 PM »
Diplomas are overrated. You can become a CEO without one. ;)
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Offline icemaw

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Interesting fact of the week from an Architectural Engineer!
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2006, 01:05:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bruno
There's a decent documentary on the bombing (IIRC shown on PBS maybe Frontline..? or maybe one of the cable / sat channels...)

Just going from memory, in that documentary the the face of the Murrah Federal Building being glass the pressure wave easily blew through it lifting several of the lower floors up. Along first floor was a horizontal reinforced concrete support 'beam' that was lifted up and then pushed back off the vertical columns by the blast and fell. As the floors came back down they crushed those vertical columns that were already weakened by the blast. As these gave way the building pancaked.

The conclusions reached in this documentary implied that the lack of blast proof glass was the key factor in the buildings collapse and I don't recall any mention of faulty construction in general.

Later today I will see if I can find the title and maybe a transcript...




yup saw this program was very good!
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