Author Topic: History of religion  (Read 1885 times)

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
History of religion
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2006, 10:11:59 AM »
ripley... did you read what I wrote?  you keep hammering on the history of religion... you talk about the evil it did when it was a political force but conviently take it out of context.... like the inquisition or crusades existed in a vacumn.... like the age of kings was some sort of camelot fairly tale.

Kings and governments were brutal beyond anything even religion could come up with... they often (mostly)conspired for mutal benifiet...

sooooo... bad times = bad people, bad government and..... bad religion.

so let's live in the present.   What inquisitions are waiting in the wings?   If you fear that from religion then you must know that it can't happen without governments consent and help and people sinking back to the dark ages...

so.... I ask.... what are you afraid of?   and.... why aren't you afraid of government at least as much?   You allow government the power of life and death over you... your very freedoms and entire life is controled by it.... you seem to put so much FAITH in it that you won't even question it.

And you wonder why I simply shake my head in disbelief?   You wonder why I worry more about you than some harmless christian?

lazs

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
History of religion
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2006, 10:16:58 AM »
Lazs you're not getting the message. A democratic government makes its decisions based on factual reasons.

A religious structure makes its decisions based on superstitious faith which more than often defies reason.

If you were going to face a trial on blasphemy, would you choose a trial held by church or the common justice system? As you see, those two instances work on two totally different grounds.

Nobody can deny that people's beliefs have suppressed the ones who have seen the larger picture for milleniums.

By the way, the socialist government that you seem to be so much scared of actually has strong ties to the christian church back here. Even at the level where the church taxes christians through government.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2006, 10:19:32 AM by MrRiplEy[H] »
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
History of religion
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2006, 10:26:24 AM »
Not sure what you mean, Storch.  Principles are artificial, abstract constructs modeled independently from concrete reality.

Snot mathematics is shades of saintly apparitions and godly omens, until a rational systematic is verified between the two (math and snot).
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

storch

  • Guest
History of religion
« Reply #93 on: February 26, 2006, 10:29:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
Not sure what you mean, Storch.  Principles are artificial, abstract constructs modeled independently from concrete reality.

Snot mathematics is shades of saintly apparitions and godly omens, until a rational systematic is verified between the two (math and snot).
not principles, principals

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
History of religion
« Reply #94 on: February 26, 2006, 10:33:58 AM »
ripley... we have never been able to understand each other it seems... Might be my fault.. don't know.

Again.... christians have no control over me and are no threat.... government has complete control so is the biggest threat to my freedom in my life.... this is true everywhere except where religion and government are in collusion.... such as muslim countries.

A people needs a strong constitution to protect it from it's government.... that same constitution would protect it even better from religion.   Your examples of religion running the courts or making laws is silly.   A good government is limited in what it can do... the courts are limited.

I bring up gun control because it is such an obvious example.... take my state, kalifornia... we have new gun laws every week it seems... every state around us is very reasonable and it is extremely easy for people in those states to own useful arms and even carry them concealled...  why is kalifornia so different?  who knows but..... kalifornia is the only state that does not have strong citizens protection rights for firearms ownership.

Regardless... in those other states it matters not what the government or the religious think... the right is protected.

Who is taking away free peoples rights around the world (free people not muslims) ??  is it the christians or is it government?   is it the U.S. or the socialists ones?    I fear your socialism much more than I have ever feared religion...  I can move away from very religious areas in my country.... it is impossible to move away from government.

lazs

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
History of religion
« Reply #95 on: February 26, 2006, 10:34:19 AM »
"on what basis could a case be made, proven or disproven once all the principals involved have long expired?"

Let me know which definition's the right one..
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
History of religion
« Reply #96 on: February 26, 2006, 10:39:34 AM »
Lazs while currently it is the government, in the past the church was a government within the government. The king was second to the religious leaders.

And lazs.. I was just teasing you. :D Your enthusiasm just begs to give you a poke sometimes. :p
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

storch

  • Guest
History of religion
« Reply #97 on: February 26, 2006, 10:43:51 AM »
sheesh the legal definition of a principal ie the principal participants in the event, the perpetrator (as it were) the witnesses, the victims etc.  principals.  or do the english utilize another word for this concept?

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
History of religion
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2006, 10:44:01 AM »
exactly my point.... the "past"  we are not living in the past.... we need to keep it in mind so it doesn't repeat but... we are living in the present...

go ahead and poke.  

lazs

Offline moot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 16333
      • http://www.dasmuppets.com
History of religion
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2006, 10:51:54 AM »
A verifiable basis?
Dunno what the point you're trying to make is.
Hello ant
running very fast
I squish you

Offline MrRiplEy[H]

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11633
History of religion
« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2006, 11:37:14 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but the topic was history lazs. :t
Definiteness of purpose is the starting point of all achievement. –W. Clement Stone

Offline Shuckins

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
History of religion
« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2006, 02:51:31 PM »
There is no religious or governmental institution in the world, no matter how noble it's intentions and righteous it's founding principles, that cannot be corrupted by base men.

Certainly there has been much evil done in the name of religion, but to stereotype all members of that religion because of the action of certain of its members is patently unfair.

Without doubt, the history of Christianity over the last 2000 years has been troubled.  Having been founded on the kindest of human principles, the early Church survived persecution to establish a foothold in the mightiest empire in the ancient world, only to see those principles perverted and subsumed beginning with the Council of Nicaea and the depradations of the Emperor Valens.

The Church split into two branches, Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic.  Of the two, the Roman Church became far more bellicose and corrupt.  Many of its beliefs, the sacraments and excommunication, are non-scriptural and were often used to whip those who opposed the Church hierachy into line.

One of the great "sins" laid at the feet of the medieval Church by modern critics was the instigation of the Crusades.  While the first Crusade was called by Pope Urban II, the European armies that marched into the Holy Land were a natural military and political reaction to a perceived threat, the unbridled expansion of Muslim military might.  While it is politically correct these days to paint the Crusaders as blood-thirsty fanatics, the truth of the matter is that there were plenty of fanatics on both sides.  Crusaders who remained in the Holy Land, living in close proximity to local Muslims, developed respect for, and friendship with, those Muslims.

The corruption of the Roman Catholic Church reached its height during the late Middle Ages.  It is certainly no accident that growing discontent with Church corruption, wealth, and blatantly non-Christian teachings coincided with the invention of the printing press and the spread of learning.  The revolt by thinking Christians against these evils brought on the Protestant Reformation, and began the process of returning Christianity to the principles upon which it was founded.  The attempts by the Papacy to return Lutherans and other Protestants to the fold, led to a series of bloody conflicts in Germany, Spain, and elsewhere.  The murderous attentions of the Inquisition, which are often cited in these posts as evidence of the evil of religion, were, in fact, directed at those who opposed Papal control of Christianity.

Yet the Reformation proved to be a watershed even in the history of Christianity...and benefitted not only Protestants but Catholics as well.

And yet, during the troubled history of the Church there have always been those who lived by Christ's example and strove to minister to the physical and spiritual needs of their fellow man.  Who can deny that the Red Cross, the Civil Rights Movement, the abolitionist movement, and other great social and charitable organizations were founded by the Christian faithful.

So, you see, when some here on these boards cast sneering references to their belief that religion has done far more harm than good, they only reveal the shallowness of their knowledge of history and the depths of their own biases and lack of respect for the beliefs of others.

Offline Vulcan

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9889
History of religion
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2006, 09:24:25 PM »
^^^ my point proven. Anything good is eagerly claimed as being done in 'christs example'... whereas anything bad is just 'not christian'.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
History of religion
« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2006, 11:17:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
^^^ my point proven. Anything good is eagerly claimed as being done in 'christs example'... whereas anything bad is just 'not christian'.



ROFLMAO

You are joking right?  That one has to win the "well duh!" award for clueless commentary otherwise.  Hehehe.  Classic.

Offline VOR

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2313
History of religion
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2006, 02:33:18 AM »
Just curious: Why didn't Noah swat those two mosquitos? Talk about a wasted opportunity!