Perk The Spit16

[Big G]

When I was flying the German crates in the last tour, I had more 16 kills than anything else for some reason.
I do agree that the 6/8 50 cals are a better package than the current  spit arrangement.
I think that as long as you don't play the tnb game at 200ft off the deck with them and see all your e dissapear, then you should  be able to defeat one or escape.

I was working with pooface  (good lad that he is ) in one and will fly  one all next week.
I'm assuming that it's med-low alt (18k and down) and it's range looks a bit weak ?
Convergence is what ? 300 or close to it ?
Is the speed at 16-18k comparable with the Jug/Pony ?

[Pooface]

Originally posted by Big G
When I was flying the German crates in the last tour, I had more 16 kills than anything else for some reason.
I do agree that the 6/8 50 cals are a better package than the current  spit arrangement.
I think that as long as you don't play the tnb game at 200ft off the deck with them and see all your e dissapear, then you should  be able to defeat one or escape.

I was working with pooface  (good lad that he is ) in one and will fly  one all next week.
I'm assuming that it's med-low alt (18k and down) and it's range looks a bit weak ?
Convergence is what ? 300 or close to it ?
Is the speed at 16-18k comparable with the Jug/Pony ?

lol ty

its more low alt. i think 16k is it's best speed, but it doesnt really belong up there. convergence should be whever you shoot at, but mine is about 300 yes

and speed is NOTHING compared to a jug or pony. that's why i dont understand the whines. both pony and jug can get over 100mph over it

spit16 is still bottom half of the planeset top speed wise

[Saxman]

I think it may be because the Spit XVI is a dragster, and for the most part your top speedsters are slower to get going so it gets people thinking the 16 is faster than it should be.

[gatt]

BTW, I'm really puzzled how a fighter with such a monster climb rate (really impressive) can have relative low acceleration and max speed at alt. Only drag?

[Ack-Ack]

those clipped wings though are a liability at lower speeds, especially at stall speeds.



ack-ack

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by gatt
BTW, I'm really puzzled how a fighter with such a monster climb rate (really impressive) can have relative low acceleration and max speed at alt. Only drag?

Because the Merlin 66 in the XVI and VIII was designed for low alt work, best under 22k.
Hence the LF designation (although not on the tag in the game).
Correct would be LF VIIIc , LF XVIe .

Low down the VIII and XVI are 2nd in acceleration to the La7, and it's not by much, 1/10's of a second.

Conversely the Merlin 61 in the F IX was designed for 20k+ flying.

Merlins were produced in 3 flavours -
HF - Exmetre high alt
F - Standard
LF - Low alt

If you look at the first part of any Spit designation it will start with one of them.
The motor decided whether it was a HF, F, or LF the wing tip type, either clipped, std, or extended didn't matter.
You could quite readily find a HF VIII with standard tips. or an F V with clipped tips.

Think of it as taking a high performance car tuned for sea level then running it on a mountain at 25k. Performance will suffer.

[Schatzi]

<--- loves killing Spit16s that think they can turn with anything in her HMk1.

[tedrbr]

Spit XVI probably see some success from people in other planes trying to fight on their terms.  I know I've gotten taken by 16's that caught me with low-e, where I should have known better..... I still need practice in fighters.

Aganst other T&B planes, all else being equal, the 16 should come out ahead often, they are probably on average the best non-perked turn-fighter.  Nik2 should keep the range open and use it's buckets of lead at range.  A Kia-84 should take the fight vertical, where I think it still has a little advantage hanging on the prop, and superior-WEP.  There is probably a technique most planes can bring to bear against the 16.....

B&Z planes probably get caught when they try to turn fight --- even for just a few moments to bring the guns to bear -- with a 16.  If you miss, or line up poorly, don't try to correct ---  keep going, extend, get alt, then dive back in with plenty of E.  A little jinking helps. I tend to load fuel on B&Z planes for extended fights rather than keeping it light and hoping for quick kills.  I expect to miss on many passes.

Now when the sky is full of 16's, then things are problamatic.  Furball last night where Yucca in his Jug was actively being hunted by Rooks also had Spit-16 swarms in it.  Rooks turn-fighters were getting chopped up pretty regularly, you out manuver one only to end in sights of another (and we *were* a little fixated on the lone Jug in the sky  ).  Would have been prime for B&Z fighter sweep...but it was very late, and most of us logged as it was still getting interesting.

I'm still discovering which planes suit me well under which conditions, rather than following what's popular.

[Guppy35]

Unless you are up against one of the 'elite' drivers in a Spit XVI, they just aren't that big a deal.  The Spit 8 and 9 are both better birds outside of the roll rate, but 9 out of 10 times the XVI driver thinks he is going to out turn the 8 or 9 and those clipped wings leave him hanging.  

I'm NOT a great stick but was furballing last night and was up in a Spit VIII.  I got bounced by 2 16s and they did the usual try and out turn the VIII bit.  Both died.

Of the three Merlin 60 series Spits, the XVI is the last of the three I'd take personally, and I like clipped Spits,  Right now I'd lean towards the 8  being the best of the three with the 9 a very close second.

[Pooface]

Originally posted by Guppy35
Unless you are up against one of the 'elite' drivers in a Spit XVI, they just aren't that big a deal.  The Spit 8 and 9 are both better birds outside of the roll rate, but 9 out of 10 times the XVI driver thinks he is going to out turn the 8 or 9 and those clipped wings leave him hanging.  

I'm NOT a great stick but was furballing last night and was up in a Spit VIII.  I got bounced by 2 16s and they did the usual try and out turn the VIII bit.  Both died.

Of the three Merlin 60 series Spits, the XVI is the last of the three I'd take personally, and I like clipped Spits,  Right now I'd lean towards the 8  being the best of the three with the 9 a very close second.

anyone that has told me the 8 is better than the 16 i have proven wrong. now of course, i am a 16 pilot, and i like to think im reasonably good in it, but the small amount of extra lift from the wingtips cannot match the 16's ability for maneuvering. if you aren't ver experienced with the thing, and just try turning in one plane, be it vert or horizontal, without flying in 3d, then sure, full span spits will get it. but if you fly properly, like you should in any other plane if you were turnfighting, the 16 outclasses the 8, 9, 5 in everything.


oh, btw, just because it is uber, it shouldnt be perked. that would leave the best free RAF fighter as a 1943 ride, now that is lame


and if it is perked, it should be given 25 lb's boost, and a bubble canopy. then i'll still fly it and pwn you all hahaha

[Bronk]

Originally posted by Pooface
anyone that has told me the 8 is better than the 16 i have proven wrong. now of course, i am a 16 pilot, and i like to think im reasonably good in it, but the small amount of extra lift from the wingtips cannot match the 16's ability for maneuvering. if you aren't ver experienced with the thing, and just try turning in one plane, be it vert or horizontal, without flying in 3d, then sure, full span spits will get it. but if you fly properly, like you should in any other plane if you were turnfighting, the 16 outclasses the 8, 9, 5 in everything.


oh, btw, just because it is uber, it shouldnt be perked. that would leave the best free RAF fighter as a 1943 ride, now that is lame


and if it is perked, it should be given 25 lb's boost, and a bubble canopy. then i'll still fly it and pwn you all hahaha

Problem is Poof that the Mk XVI at 18 boost is a late 43 ride at best.
As far as I can tell a clipped Mk IX with Merlin 66 is the same aircraft.

Someone correct me if I am wrong please.
   


Bronk

[Guppy35]

Originally posted by Pooface
anyone that has told me the 8 is better than the 16 i have proven wrong. now of course, i am a 16 pilot, and i like to think im reasonably good in it, but the small amount of extra lift from the wingtips cannot match the 16's ability for maneuvering. if you aren't ver experienced with the thing, and just try turning in one plane, be it vert or horizontal, without flying in 3d, then sure, full span spits will get it. but if you fly properly, like you should in any other plane if you were turnfighting, the 16 outclasses the 8, 9, 5 in everything.


oh, btw, just because it is uber, it shouldnt be perked. that would leave the best free RAF fighter as a 1943 ride, now that is lame


and if it is perked, it should be given 25 lb's boost, and a bubble canopy. then i'll still fly it and pwn you all hahaha

But you said the key words.  How many guys out there are flying it to the best of it's ability?

The average MA flyer, who thinks that 16 is a bigger number then 14 so it must be uber, thinks it should naturally out perform an 8 since the 8 is half the number  I'm guessing, like me, you've run into a Spit 14 pilot while flying  a Spit V and shot the 14 down when he tries to out turn you.  14 bigger number then 5, so it must do everything better.  Yeah right

In the end you are talking about 2 LF Spits with low alt Merlin 66 or 266 engines.  In a turn fight the 8 should beat a 16.  Again, the 16 is nothing more then an LF 9 with an American built Merlin 266 instead of the Rolls Merlin 66 that the 8 has.  If the 16 is that much better then the 8 in AH, without the +25 boost then something IS wrong with the 16.  

I just don't think the 16 is that big of a deal comparing it to the 8 or 9, but I'm an average stick.

A great stick in most of the birds can make them do things the rest of us  can't so it becomes an unfair way to judge the general performance of a particular plane.

Interestingly, I checked model vs model stats and the XVI is even with most everything, but the 190s have a better number of kills vs deaths to 16s as do the Hurri IIc, the Typhoon and the LA7.  The Corsairs dominiate it.  Even my favorite P38G has 183 kills of 16s to 125 deaths.

All of which seems to speak to the 16s being flown by lots of new guys and average sticks hoping to get better while the others outside of the LA dweebs are better sticks who can handle the 16.  

For all the whining of the 190 crowd,  the A5 is 345 kills to 302 losses to the 16.  The A8 is 503 kills to 470 losses.  The D9 guys really dominiate the 16 885-556.

Bottom line is lots of folks fly 16s but not many are doing anything uber in them outside of the few great sticks who would probably do the same in whatever they fly

[Karnak]

Performance wise you are correct Bronk.  The "e" wing hadn't shown up yet, so no .50 cals on a '43 LF.IX, but the 20mms are the lions share of the firepower in anycase.

[Hoarach]

Most of kills are dweebfire 16s.  I have 100 kills of dweebfire 16s compared to 79 kills of lgay7s which used to be more popular.  But most of my deaths are to dweebfire 16s and lgay7s with 20 each.  The dweebfires are not that hard to kill as their wings just fall off with a short squirt from my 38.  I love watching their wings rip right off when they try to pull a high g climb.

The biggest complaint I have about them is that theyre practically the best plane especially if flown in the hands of a good pilot.  They are one of the best planes to turn with, hold E very well, not many things can out climb it, a somewhat fast plane but hard to outrun cause of their acceleration and will catch in the long run, and have decent guns.

I know I have read in the past that its not in the top 25 as the fastest planes but I always get caught by them from underneath me in my 38 or even in a 51 and am lucky to get away from them in a temp.  They hold E to well that they can climb up from 3k under me and still get within 400 of me to spray at me and hit something.  There are not many options that can be done with a dweebfire 400 off and close to the same speed and when there are 2 of them might as well start digging your grave.

Couple weeks after it came out I wondered how good of a plane it was so I upped it from a base getting swarmed over by enemy.  I got into a 7v1 after I had already shot down 4 and was trying to rtb to a base as the fight was getting to overwhelmed to the point I was the only rook.  Somehow I won that 7v1 just by getting them all slow and outturning them and made it home.  After that I thought, "Wow what a dweeb plane, this thing is way to overmodeled and needs to be perked."  I only fly it now in desperate situations where a base is crawling with enemy planes.  But most of the time I prefer the spit 8 as it has more fuel tanks which can be hit, to me it seems to turn better even though it isnt as fast.

[Pooface]

the fact is though that it is vastly undermodelled, and even pyro and HT have admitted this, because they dont want to perk it.


if popular demand does lead to it being perked, ok, but i expect it to be given a quick makeover, with 25lb boost and a bubble canopy